Multiorgasmic Guestbook
<< 1998 >>
000024
Saturday 01/03/1998 10:56:00am
Andy Lennard
Lanlion@AOL.com
New York
Twenty minutes seems a long time to reach ejaculation.
Was this a full 20 minutes of stimulation? If not how long did it take from the start of stimulation itself to ejaculation? And at what point was a full erection achieved? I am asking this question because subsequent ejaculations seem to have occurred much more quickly and I wondered why.
Many thanks.
Unfortunately, shortly after beginning the timed experiment, the VCR began to malfunction. We were about to stop and start over when the male participant was able to get it working again. This, in part, caused the delay to first orgasm. In addition, the videotape used took a few minutes to begin providing material "sufficient to the task", shall we say. Erection was achieved almost immediately once the "technical" difficulties with the VCR were resolved.
000025
Saturday 01/03/1998 10:52:00pm
Peter Bishop
Boston
Did all six orgasms produce ejaculate and if yes how did the volume between them compare.
Yes, every orgasm was accompanied by ejaculate. The volumes varied, understandably. However, unlike the ejaculate volumes of the Kothari study depicted at the website, the volumes of our male participant reflected volumes to be expected of uninhibited ejaculation. The first ejaculation produced approximately 3 ml, whereas the second was about half that. The remaining four decreased further in volume until the final ejaculation, which produced approximately .05 ml.
000026
Wednesday 01/07/1998 6:54:00am
Alan
Your findings are fascinating and I think may revolutionise thinking in this area. Apart from timing and verifying your participant's ejaculations, did you also measure the strength and duration of orgasms? Did this produce anything interesting?
I saw one study which illustrated great variance between the number of penile contractions measured during orgasm from one man to another — from 4 to 23. This might help indicate an explanation for his unusual staying power. On the one hand, mild orgasms might mean the body does not react to produce a refractory period; on the other hand, a very intense reaction might leave the body so aroused that it just carries on. I know these are rather crude theories but I thought they might be the basis of some ideas.
That is an interesting observation. No, we did not measure the number of post-orgasmic/ejaculatory penile contractions, however according to the participant, he does have quite a number of them (between 10-20, on average). It will be something to consider in future studies.
000027
Wednesday 01/07/1998 5:29:00pm
Simon
Los Angeles
This whole study is fascinating. But why was there only one participant in the research. Surely, there most be other men with this particular aptitude out there.
You'd think, wouldn't you! Apparently however, this study is the first of its kind for a reason: this capacity in the male is that rare! In fact, had not the participant contacted Rutgers University to begin with, there never would've been a first study. While we would have preferred to include other such males in our study, no one else like him was known to us. And while I am sure other such males exist, still ours is the first study ever to document it. Thank you for your remarks!
000028
Thursday 01/08/1998 6:50:00am
Debra Pearson
DebPears@AOL.com
London, UK
If you didn't measure penile contractions, what did you measure to verify orgasm and what did this reveal? I ask because similar studies in women have used vaginal and anal contractions to measure the presence, length and intensity of orgasm. These contractions are normally considered to be taking place during orgasm itself. Surely this is true in the male too, so why do you describe them as "post-orgasmic."
Congratulations on your work. I would love to see your man in action!
Excellent questions, all! And I'll ask him about a private demonstration for you (just kidding!).
To answer your questions, we used an infra-red pupilometer to measure pupil diameter, which involuntarily increases during orgasm, and blood pressure readings taken at two minute intervals throughout the study, and at orgasm, as well as collected the semen ejaculated at each orgasm, which was later analyzed for verification of contents. Given these three measurements, we felt their evidence of orgasm rather incontrovertible. While we would have liked to also measure penile/anal contractions, the equipment required for this was unavailable at the time of the study.
I called these contractions "post-orgasmic" due to the popular position that ejaculation is separate from orgasm. By this viewpoint, as these contractions take place in the ejaculatory phase, they would thus be considered "post-orgasmic". However, despite this popular viewpoint, ejaculation — if permitted to occur naturally — is certainly part of the male's orgasmic experience. Orgasm and ejaculation can only be separated through the use of cognitive techniques which interrupt and abort the full orgasmic experience. Thus, I am completely in agreement with you — despite the more prevailing mindset — that orgasm and ejaculation are naturally inseparable, and that they should certainly be so considered.
Thank you for your wonderful entry.
000029
Sunday 01/11/1998 2:07:00pm
brian
softrock@telusplanet.net
Jasper, Alberta, Canada
Fascinating web site and research! On several occasions I've experienced what you describe as true multi-orgasmic response — though not at your test subject's level! This doesn't appear to be a function of age/youth for me, seeing as I am a 41 year old man and enjoyed this rather remarkable phenomena as recently as last year. Needless to say, I truly look foreword to your continued research in unlocking the potential capacity of male sexuality. My own experiences have left me somewhat perplexed as to how this "reflex" functions. In my own case, I usually am able to maintain a partial to full erection for some time after orgasm, but can not be stimulated to climax for an while, even with continued sexual activity — i.e. a refractory period. When I have experienced multis, I do recall that the experience has been preceded by extremely stimulating foreplay in which both my female partner and I reached high levels of excitement. Unfortunately, this level of stimulation does not appear to be the trigger, otherwise I would have some control over reaching this state of bliss. And I have no ideas on how your subject was not overcome with fatigue by his prolonged performance. My multis (2 to 4, in the range of from 2 to 10 minutes, approximately) have left me completely worn out. Still, here's hoping for a little light to be shed on this incredible possibility.
Thank you for your remarks. Your own experience bears out my own theory that, at least in part, the degree of arousal plays at least some role on the degree to which the refractory period is experienced, or not. The participant also noted that when arousal was less, though still no refractory period was in evidence after orgasm, he would lose some small degree of erection, for a moment (as he stated occurred during the study). He does not fatigue, although he does sweat, etc., and this may be in part due to his aerobic conditioning. This has yet to be determined, however. It is interesting that you use the word "fatigue" to describe this. While sex can be somewhat physically exertive, I don't know as that it could be called "fatiguing" in the classical sense. It isn't exactly the same as ditch-digging. It would be interesting to get further opinions on exactly what kind of fatigue is experienced by males as a result of sexual interactions, and how they would describe it. Thank you again!
000030
Thursday 01/15/1998 8:30:00pm
Anonymous secret
Hello!
I sure wish I had known about this earlier. During a few periods in my life I have enjoyed real multiple orgasms (2-3 orgasms with ejaculations but no refractory period). Until now I only thought of them as freak occurrences, and the idea to cultivate them never occurred to me. I guess I just needed words for the experiences. Actually I feel fairly confident that they are possible to cultivate. Cultivating nonejaculatory orgasms wasn't to difficult, and I had never experienced any of those before I started dabbling with the techniques of Tao, Tantra and the more recent western studies (i.e. Hartman Fithian). Real multiorgasms on the other hand I have experienced several times, so it must be a lot easier to learn to experience them consistently. It is so silly that the brain needs to have the concept presented as a string of words, and that it doesn't go quick from raw experience! Of course I do not know that I will succeed until I have done it, but until I saw your study it never even occurred to me to give it a try!
I have to ask: do you know if anyone has learned this ability yet?
Regards
Anonymous 765
PS I do not have a secure e-mail account right now. So that's why I not mention my address.
Hey, that's why I put a guestbook on. To answer your question, no. We know of no instance yet where this natural capacity (as opposed to those using ejaculatory-control techniques) has ever been learned by any male. However, that is not to say that it cannot be accomplished. And, you make a good point that it often makes it easier to accomplish the "impossible" once something causes the mind to believe it IS possible. And, in this case, it is now a documented fact that natural, male multiorgasmic response IS real. Good luck in your efforts, and let me know what progress you make!
000031
Friday 01/16/1998 2:39:00pm
Helen
Phoenix
Hello:
I find this whole study fascinating, I bet your male subject must be very, very popular with the ladies...
Thank you for your remarks. I am especially gratified when females write to express interest in this subject, as well. While the potential for male sexual pleasure is obvious, it is wonderful when I receive responses from females who catch the potential for their own pleasure, too.
000032
Saturday 01/17/1998 11:56:00am
Laurie
Richmond
Taking into account the, cumbersome, necessary, instrumentation which was attached to your male subject and which probably didn't do much for ambiance; was this poor man offered a partner, to assist him. If not, why?
Also, was any of this study video taped, and again, if not, why?
Unfortunately, no. The study requirements of our funding source prohibited the use of a partner for him. I fully agree with you that it sure would have made things much more, shall we say, "amenable" to the purposes (and undoubtably the results) of the study. As he stated following the study, his responses were understandably less than they otherwise would have been. Thus, the study suffered as a result of these restrictions. The study was not videotaped, no. Again, this would not have been considered ethical by the university nor our funding source. However, the subject was under observation throughout the entire study via a small window from the other room where the instrumentation data was monitored.
You bring up the ironic reality of legit sex research. There is absolutely nothing "sexy" about it. Understandably, this detracts from the purposes for which the research was initiated, to begin with! But, if we want funding, we have to abide by the restrictions to which those funds come attached. Now, were we to have instead shot an adult video with his unique capacity even more clearly and more "abundantly" apparent (with as many partners and situations as he might desire), this would have been rejected by the scientific community as "unethical" evidence. And yet, the sexuality depicted would have been much more usefulness, accurate, and typical of his natural, multiorgasmic capacity. Thus ultimately, "legit" sex research will forever fail in its quest while its self-imposed limitations and restrictions continue to inhibit the degree to which sexuality under investigation is permitted expression.
Thank you for your remarks, and for allowing me a forum through which to express a bit of my own frustration, as well. (I feel SO much better now. *smile*)
000033
Saturday 01/17/1998 3:23:00pm
Private Message 33
000034
Monday 01/19/1998 11:49:00am
Andy Lennard
Lanlion@aol.com
New York
I was interested to read that you took regular blood pressure measurements during the experiment. How large was the variation from the beginning to first ejaculation? And after that did bp fall back to the original level or stay at an enhanced level?
Also did the bp measurement reach the same level during each subsequent ejaculation or did this vary?
While the specific questions of your entry cannot be addressed until we are published, I can tell you that the blood pressure readings maintained a highly elevated state throughout the study. Once we are published, I will add the entire study, including all the physiological measurements and methodologies employed. Thank you for your questions; they are, of course, relevant and important ones.
000035
Monday 01/19/1998 10:18:00pm
Morris Cole
Miami
You've mentioned that the subject was being observed, throughout the entire study, through a window connected to another room. Was this done to monitor the subject's reactions and add the details to the final report, or was it only done to prevent the participant from cheating in any way? Thanks. M.C.
To answer both your questions, — yes. It was not done so much to prevent cheating as to prevent the critics of our study (and such a study has many!) from being able to discredit the study and its results by claiming that deception could have taken place. It was also done to verify that following orgasm/ejaculation, no loss in erection took place as had been claimed by the male subject. This could have only been truly verified through visual observation.
000036
Monday 01/26/1998 12:40:00am
Clayton Bewley
Chicago
Hi, I'm intrigued...how was it possible to use an infra-red pupilometer, during the actual experiment, to monitor pupil diameter without blocking whatever the subject was watching for visual stimulus? Thanks, great site...C.B.
The pupilometer is used on only a single eye, thus the other eye is not encumbered. In addition, the male subject's pupilar diameter was taken only once every two minutes, and at orgasm, thus he was not required to have this diameter measured continuously. Yet, even so, it was still a distracting, though necessary, procedure for him — as I have previously commented on.
000037
Monday 01/26/1998 3:39:00pm
Leslie-Ann Johnson
Dallas
I've been following the developments, on your web site, for several months now. Checking it has become an almost daily thing; I'm mesmerized by it. I never added my comments, basically because men only appeared to respond. Lately though, women have been coming out of the woodwork, so I figured I should maybe add my opinion.
You state that there is nothing "sexy" about sex research. Well, I tend to disagree with that. A lot of us seem to think that, on the contrary, it happens to be very erotic. Even your male participant must have found something arousing about it, otherwise he couldn't have had an orgasm, let alone six.
I find something incredibly appealing with the mental image of it all. When do you anticipate the posting of the study, and in what degree of detail will it be recounted?
Thank you so much for your wonderful remarks. You have no idea how much I too am looking forward to the study's publication. We expect the study to be published by this fall, at the latest.
I would love to hear more of what you find appealing about this, as I am very much interested in the female viewpoint on this. I am preparing a book for publication and very much need the feminine input. Please write me and tell me more, and I might include your comments! And if there are any other women who would like to comment on this, please don't be shy. Even if your comments are negative, I'd like to hear from you.
As for your remarks regarding sex research, there is a certain mystique concerning it that tends to romanticize it a bit — and while some of this may be warranted, yet in reality it is not very "pretty". True, he did have six, as you say, so he must have found the video stimulating enough despite the distraction and tedium of the reporting procedures. However, a partner or two — or three — or (well, you get the picture), certainly would've made it a lot nicer for him, I'm sure!
Thank you again for your wonderful entry, and I look forward to hearing more from you.
000038
Monday 01/26/1998 5:39:00pm
Leslie-Ann Johnson
Dallas
Thanks for the quick reply. Next fall???
That's way, way in the future...I was kind of hoping for next weeks or something; talk about a bummer.
I think you misunderstood my first message. I don't romanticize sex research at all, there's probably, as you say, nothing romantic about it. I just find the idea of a sexy guy (presuming the participant was indeed sexy) naked, hooked up to God only knows what kind of paraphernalia and masturbating in front of an entire research team, very exciting.
Men tend to think that only they can have kinky sexual fantasies. Well gentlemen, it doesn't quite work that way. Anyway, a public forum of this nature is probably not the best place to entertain this type of discussion, but thanks for asking for my opinion, I am flattered.
Well, let me thank you for your quick reply. While a few months on down the road may seem a long time, I've been waiting now for three years to see this study finally published, so to me, a few more months isn't that bad.
As for your fantasy, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And I would hope there are plenty of sensually self-aware women out there as unafraid of their sexual fantasies as are you. You are quite a treasure if you can be open and unashamed of your high degree of sexuality. I congratulate you. Thank heaven there are women who know themselves, and glory in that knowledge rather than shrink from it.
Again, thank you for your refreshingly candid comments.
000039
Monday 01/26/1998 10:44:00pm
Private Message 39
000040
Saturday 02/14/1998 2:04:00pm
Private Message 40
000041
Saturday 02/21/1998 5:19:00pm
Tod H
bonzi@ucom.net
Kansas
"Hey" I had multipule orgasams once and I had four KIDS.
HaHaHa
Really I think your studies are cool. If I really ever have a multiple i'll let you know. Keep up the good work.
UP being the key word. HaHa
Thanks
Tod H
000042
Thursday 02/26/1998 5:50:00pm
Myk L.
lunnm6d0@numen.elon.edu
Elon, NC
Speaking from both professional and personal points of view, your study really fascinates me.
I would love to get a copy of it once it comes out. Please do email me and tell me where I could get a copy. I look forward to reading it!
Myk
Thanx for your interest. As soon as the study is published, the entire study will be made available at the website. Unfortunately, I cannot release it until then. Certain major commercial publications are likewise awaiting its release, as well. Hopefully, the wait will not be for much longer.
000043
Thursday 02/26/1998 6:13:00pm
Tom
I came across your page quite a while ago, found it interesting and even decided to compare my multiorgasmic results to the results you cite. I recorded the volumes of semen a couple of times; here is one example of four orgasms within a short period of time:
1) 2.4 ml;
2) 3.3 ml (2 minutes after the first);
3) 1.0 ml (3 minutes after 2);
4) 3.7 ml (2 minutes after 3).
I think the numbers are higher than the results posted on your pages since my "experiment" was done after 8 days of abstinence. Also my age can be a factor (I'm 29).
I DID employ voluntary techniques during my sessions (squeezing and then relaxing my PC muscle). In the example above the first three ejaculations were "partial" or suppressed, only the last one was a natural full orgasm. The erection was good during the first three orgasms (it actually increased after the first one), it subsided only after the fourth one.
Usually it is easy (at least in my case) to distinguish between suppressed and full orgasms: during suppressed ejaculations the semen usually flows continuously and there are no contractions. HOWEVER, a couple of times i did have a few contractions (up to 4; rather weak but still easily distinguishable in the semen flow) during such suppressed (partial) orgasms, so basically they LOOKED like normal full orgasms (only that the erection was maintained afterwards). Which raises a question: how can you be sure, without measuring the penile contractions, that your Subject really had full orgasms during your experiments? Isn't it possible that he simply mastered the voluntary techniques and his suppressed orgasms look very much like the natural ones? This is what I would suspect! Do you have some good and unquestionable indicator allowing to distinguish between those two types of orgasms?
Another question: could you, please, point me to some resources where I could find comparison data about volumes of semen expelled during multiple ejaculations (and also during multiple natural orgasms)? After reading your pages and measuring my results I am curious how I compare to the other men (this interest is probably closely related to the usual male interest in comparing his penis size to the others).
For comparison here are the results I achieved during a multiorgasmic session
NOT involving any voluntary techniques (all orgasms were full). It was also done after 8 days of abstinence. Of course, the erection was lost immediately after each orgasm (it was regained after some refractory period).
1) 9.7 ml;
2) 3.2 ml (40 minutes after 1);
3) 2.3 ml (1 hour after 2).
Are the above results high, average or low? Normally my results are slightly lower, but in this case the first orgasm was achieved after an unusually long stimulation.
Thank you for your answers!
Tom
While your subjective readings are interesting, it would help to have them verified by a responsible third party. The volumes you report per "suppressed" ejaculation almost match the volumes reported in the average un-suppressed ejaculation. The average, full, un-suppressed ejaculation measures approximately 1 tsp. (4 to 5 ml). And that is with all the penile contractions which expel as much of the accumulated semen as possible. You are reporting ejaculations with little to no contractions, being stopped by voluntary techniques. And yet, despite this, you report astounding volumes ranging from 2.4 ml (1st ejaculation) up to 3.7 ml (4th), with total volume expelled exceeding 10 ml! Understanding that the last ejaculation was uninhibited by PC muscle contractions, such semen quantities are quite unusual. To date, all documented, multiorgasmic techniques require PC muscle contraction immediately following orgasm and prior to the contractions of ejaculation. Thus, only the tiniest amount of semen is expelled; — that which was initially "dumped" preparatory to the first contraction, then, with each additional contraction, more is pumped in from the testicles, to be expelled with each subsequent contraction. Totalling all of these, the average amount is equal to approximately one tsp. However, for 2 or 3 ml to all be expelled with no contraction, whatsoever, has never been documented and would be considered highly unlikely.
To answer your questions, the only study I know of that documented semen volumes for orgasms with suppressed ejaculations is the Kothari study outlined at this website. As you can clearly see, and as would be expected, the volumes expelled are right at about 1 ml, on average. And, as also is to be expected, this amount varies dependent on when the PC muscle is contracted. However, in our study, the semen volumes vary in an entirely different pattern, as also would be expected. The first ejaculation, being the first of the natural, full ejaculations, is understandably the greatest in volume and approximates the volume expected to be expelled during natural, full ejaculation. Thereafter, with each subsequent orgasm, the volumes dip considerably, as most of the semen is understandably ejaculated during the first orgasm (the actual volumes will be included at this website once the study is published in a professional journal). Thus, by this alone, we have perhaps the most irrefutable indicator that full ejaculation has taken place.
In your case, should you be accurately reporting the volumes you gave, I would highly recommend that you seek a research group that might be interested in documenting your amazing capacity for semen production. This, alone, would be of great interest to science and men, in general. If you can naturally ejaculate quantities of 10 ml, you and Peter North certainly have something in common, and have a cumshot capacity most men would love to possess! Good luck to you.
000044
Monday 03/02/1998 1:37:00pm
Private Message 44
000045
Friday 03/06/1998 0:21:00am
kubi
hotkubi@hotmail.com
http://elev.mkfc.se/~m_oneill
sweden
I honestly cant say that i fully understand this thing men have got about "beeing able to go on for ever.." You guys might not realize that after a bit it starts to hurt inside of us women!
just wanted to let you know this...
Thank you for your remarks, kubi. I certainly understand your concerns. However, this study, and any future research, is not about teaching men how to “go on forever.†This research is interested in exploring the possibilities of ultimately allowing men to participate in sex on equal terms with women. It's about sexual freedom; the freedom to express and enjoy sexuality without the limitations imposed by nature, — something women have taken for granted for millennia.
As one woman wrote to Shere Hite, “If the partner is male, the woman is stuck with the limits of his sexuality.†Her frustration is evident and understandable. If you are working out, running, biking, or participating regularly in any kind of sport you enjoy and for which you need a partner , you don't want someone with you who can't keep up (no pun intended). You aren't going to want someone who continually holds you back from your potential. I would think women would feel the same about sex, as well. Apparently, many of them do.
Almost all women worldwide possess the physiological potential to be multiorgasmic. Their sexual physiologies do not mandate that following orgasm, they MUST experience a refractory period during which they cannot experience another orgasm. And yet, as you exemplify, women are certainly not obsessed with “going on forever.†Neither are men, and neither is this study. For millennia, women have had the CHOICE to enjoy only a single orgasm, or to have more. Men, for millennia, have never had any choice in this, at all. After natural orgasm, men, regardless of desire, libido, race, religion, color, social status, sexual awareness and experience, penis size, etc., MUST experience a refractory period during which they cannot experience more orgasms. They must “rest†until tumescence returns. And, while this might seem only a male issue, it is very much a female issue, as well.
33% of all men suffer from some degree of premature ejaculation (which is best defined as orgasming/ejaculating/losing erection, before their partners have achieved sexual satisfaction). Understandably, this creates frustration and resentment for men and women, both, and often leads to another common, male sexual dysfunction: performance anxiety. And, as a result of this universal problem, billions of dollars are spent annually, worldwide, on male "aphrodisiacs,†de-sensitizing sprays, bizarre foods, and other questionable substances, all purporting to help enhance a man's "potency", — and yet none of them have proved successful, despite the claims of those hawking them. This has been the male dilemma for millennia, now. And this is what the research focuses on. To me, it seems high time that a real solution to the problem be investigated. And now that a male has been discovered whose natural, sexual physiology does not include the refractory period, it is perhaps possible to identify the differences inherent to him (and others like him), and thus perhaps someday offer this to most — if not all — other men.
To my mind, it's about sexual freedom, for both men and women. How they express that “freedom†together will be up to them. But, unlike now, I am hopeful that someday men will have the same sexual freedom as women, and that, thus, both will finally have partners of equal sexual potential. And won't it be exciting to see just how great such a potential might be!
000046
Monday 03/09/1998 9:55:00am
Bill
I just wanted to report a similar incident from my own experience with multiple orgasms and the prescription drug Zoloft. You are probably aware that Zoloft and other antidepressant medications sometimes have the side effect of causing ejaculatory delay.
This was definitely the case with me. While on the drug I did experience multiple orgasms with no refractory period between them. This occurred on several (three or four) occasions. I would have perhaps two or three orgasms in the span of five or ten minutes. Before your readers go out and get themselves a prescription for Zoloft I think it is also important to inform them of the down side. While I considered these multiple orgasms to be a "gift" they did not occur with regularity and as I have said earlier this only happened several times.
More often than not the Zoloft would block my orgasms such that I would get to the brink of orgasm but not be able to get over the "hump" (pun intended). While my girlfriend at the time thoroughly enjoyed the extended duration of our lovemaking, my inability to reach orgasm was often a cause of great frustration for us, me especially ;). Furthermore, now that I am no longer on the drug I'm back to my old mono-orgasmic self. Personally I'd rather have an average sexual capacity than to experience depression again. Comments or questions?
This is the first I have heard of this particular drug and its interesting side-effect. I would be very interested to know what your doctor proposes as to why this drug seems to (while also making it more difficult to orgasm) keep the refractory period at bay, as it were. As I know of no drug that can accomplish this, it would be most relevant to our research to discover what properties this drug might possess that would influence this. Is this a clinically observed side-effect, experienced by a notable percentage of those taking it? Or, might this be an effect only experienced by yourself, and perhaps a few others? I would be most interested to hear from you further regarding this.
000047
Friday 03/20/1998 1:38:00pm
Joseph
catellus@usa.net
Florida
I have always been able to maintain an erection for as long as I want, ever since I was a kid. As long as I maintain stimulation, I remain erect, even after orgasm. I can also have several orgasms over a period of time — the most I can recall was perhaps 5-6 over 1 to 1 1/2 hours.
I know this is unusual because my girlfriends and ex-wife have told me so. However, to me, it is NOT the same as having multiple orgasms. I have one, always with ejaculation, and then, after several more minutes, I have another. Although, I have experienced what I call "mini-orgasms" without ejaculation.
I don't use any particular methods to do this although, as I very interested in the subject matter, I've read quite a lot. Its just something I've always been able to do (and I'm 36 y/o) and, if anything, my libido and the quality of my sex life has increase over the years.
The only other factor that may be relevant is that my nipples are very sensitive and I enjoy stimulation there during foreplay and intercourse. It seems to heighten my overall response and intensify orgasm while, at the same time, make it more of a "whole body" feeling, not just in my genitalia.
Anyway, if you have any questions or comments, I'd love to hear them.
Thank you for your remarks.
000048
Sunday 03/22/1998 9:31:00am
Dr. Tuck
Fascinating. I have been interested in this topic for quite some time. My wife is multiorgasmic and will regularly experience dozens of orgasms during sexual encounters. During some of these experiences orgasms will occur in the form of "waves" in which she no longer needs to "try" and just cycles between pre-orgasm and orgasm every few seconds, with each successive orgasm stronger and more enjoyable.
As the one observing this phenomenon I can't help but ponder the chasm that separates my experience from her's (as I experience a male refractory period) and thinking about what physiological differences would cause such a thing.
As male and female genitalia differentiate from the same embryonic and fetal tissues, with differences being only the effects of local hormonal influences (based on genetic differences) causing "clitoral" hypertrophy into a penis and fusion of the labia into the scrotal sac, an obvious reason does not jump out. Nor does neural refraction lend any particular insight — as neural refraction occurs over milliseconds and does not likely explain the male refractory period. Despite the obvious differences between male and female genitalia they are really quite similar. Thus, the phenomenon of male refractory period is quite a puzzle.
The presence of a locally produced neuro-active substance in the male seems likely (the effect of which wears off once metabolized). Has any research looked for the presence of, or difference between, circulating proteins in males vs. females after orgasm?
You, of all who have responded, appear to truly grasp the situation! Congratulations! This is precisely what and why I wish to continue the research. The key to all this is in resolving the male refractory period dilemma. This is what truly separates men from women sexually, and I feel to a greater degree, psychologically, as well. To answer your questions, no, we have not even begun to study the potential causes of the refractory period, be they neurological or more directly physiological in origin. Now that we have a male who does not experience this refractory period, it should be much easier to arrive at such conclusions, ultimately. Once the study is published, we are hopeful that funds will be forthcoming which will enable us to aggressively pursue such research. On a personal note, it would be equally intriguing to discover how sexuality might be expressed between two true multiorgasmics. To what degree might sexuality be possible were a woman of, say, your wife's sexual capacity and a male of our Subject's capacity to come together. And, what might this say of the true potentials in male/female relations were the sexual limitations of the refractory period finally eradicated? There are many such questions which would be fascinating to consider, and ultimately to answer. And, as with all areas of discovery, what new questions might be raised as a result?
000049
Sunday 03/22/1998 6:22:00pm
Joseph
catellus@usa.net
Florida
Just a short comment to follow up Dr. Tucks. I CAN maintain my erection following orgasm for as long as stimulation continues and have orgasms following this for as long as I want (at least 5 to 6 of them over a period of 60 to 90 minutes). BUT — not having a refractory period that includes of loss of erection is *NOT* the same as being multi-orgasmic as I see it. My orgasms are space minutes apart (5 to 10) and are separate. However, my girlfriend is multi-orgasmic and has orgasms one after the other over a period of mere seconds in increasing intensity as Dr Tuck describes. I cannot do this even though the capability I do have seems somewhat unique.
To have wave after wave of intense orgasms such as my girlfriend has (and other girlfriends before her) is still beyond me — and I am certainly envious!
It is that capacity for many minutes at a time of continuous orgasmic pleasure that I seek. I am now looking into Tao and tantric breathing. I have had some good results but nothing like what I have witnessed many times with my partners. It is frustrating. I can continue and give pleasure for as long as they desire — no, that sounds silly, I AM having fun and it is pleasurable. But it is NOT the same as being multi-orgasmic. Have you addressed this issue? Does your subject consider himself multi-orgasmic???? I am interested because I seem to have the same ability and do not consider myself so. I whole-heartedly appreciate your research and hope you find the true difference and a way to bridge the REAL gap.
Were multiorgasmic capacity a timed Olympic event, I would certainly agree that the less time between orgasms, the better. However, we do not define multiple orgasms quite so narrowly. Women, despite their natural, tantric-free, multiorgasmic capacity, do not all re-experience orgasm within seconds of the last, nor would I venture does the same woman always experience orgasms 20-40 seconds apart, as you mentioned in your email. Every sexual encounter is different; levels of arousal and stimulation vary as also does the libido. Thus, to say that orgasm experienced within a certain number of seconds of another is "multiorgasmic," whereas five seconds after that predetermined time period is not, is much too prejudicial, in our view.
We define natural male multiorgasmic capacity as that exhibited wherein natural, uninhibited orgasm and ejaculation occurs following which there is no loss in erection and the male (as also the female equivalent) remains in the "Plateau" phase of the sexual response cycle. This means that the physiological measurements of blood pressure, respiration, pupilar diameter, etc., remain as highly elevated following orgasm as they did while at Plateau prior to it, as also does the subjective level of arousal, and that the subject then begins building toward the next orgasm. Subsequent orgasms can occur within seconds or a few minutes depending on the subjective factors of arousal, stimulation, etc., already mentioned. The key, however, is whether or not the male (following orgasm) drops only back to the Plateau phase, or continues to drop further into "Resolution" (male refractory period) wherein the erection is lost and physiological measurements return to baseline. Should this occur, though erection and subsequent rise to orgasm occur relatively soon thereafter, this can no longer be defined as "multiple orgasm" but rather, "sequential orgasm".
To answer your question, yes our Subject does consider himself multiorgasmic, as do we. He uses no "tantric" techniques (breathing, exercises, etc.), nor does he withhold ejaculation in any way. And yet, following orgasm, he returns to Plateau and immediately begins his rise to the next, stronger, more intense orgasm. During the study, the time period between orgasms was as little as 2 minutes, to as much as 6 minutes. However, he and his wife report occasional frequency of seconds, as well, outside such a non-arousing, laboratory setting. The least timed frequency that they recorded was 5 orgasms in 6 minutes.
Thank you again, and I hope this helped to clear things up a bit in this regard.
000050
Monday 03/23/1998 12:31:00am
Kirk Kaminsky
kaminsky@phys.ualberta.ca
Edmonton, Canada
Hello:
I am absolutely thrilled that you have finally conducted a study of this nature.
As a physicist PhD in training I can certainly appreciate the value of experimental vs. anecdotal evidence. However, I have several comments to make. First I strongly believe in the 'value' of the non-ejaculatory male multiple orgasm, which you seem to discount as being less pleasurable and natural. I agree with respect to less natural (and only insofar as 'nature' seems to have designed us to proceed onto ejaculation for rather obvious biological reasons: also it would work in the species disadvantage if we ejaculated continuously into one female, hence this might provide an indirect reason why a refractory period exists), but disagree with respect to non-ejac. orgasm being less of an orgasm. When they approach continuous duration they are often far more. (At that point we ask, why do we need multiple ejaculations, which even in your subject are spaced a few minutes apart.) As one of your earlier replies indicated, they can be as intense and satisfying as a full ejaculatory orgasm. I started by learning the usual 'techniques' advocated by Chia, et. al. but I view these techniques are really just the beginning. One advances past the start and stop techniques, and squeeze techniques into what the discussions and anecdotal evidence describe as a continuous multiple orgasm (which coincides with some female claims), and this is accomplished not by starting and stopping but ultimately ironically relaxing into it (just because I am breathing slowly and stimulating myself less does not mean that I am somehow experiencing less pleasure). And because I can reach continuous non-ejac. orgasm often in 30 seconds (sometimes with no erection), this is a definite advantage over women.
Fine, I can't 'rush through orgasm' or else I'll ejaculate, but proceeding calmly there is nothing being held back, though as some people argue, sometimes it is nice to finish a session with an ejaculatory orgasm. There seems to be much discussion on intensities of non-ejac. vs. ejac., etc. and the apparently conflicting arguments (including your own study it would seem) seem to indicate that the response is highly variable. But this should come as no surprise since 1) everyone knows that even 'standard' orgasm intensity varies from the 'soft and fuzzy' to the 'I am about to die', and 2) this variance in female terms already has a label: imprinting. Finally, before praising your work, the Indian(?) study you include with respect to the guy ejaculating small bits doesn't seem to be in any contradiction to non-ejac. claims: if anything other than pre-seminal fluid emanates, you have done the 'techniques' wrong. With this defense of the 'technique methods' as you put it (if properly carried out to the relaxing finish) said, I must praise your work. For over a generation we as a society have been obsessed with female orgasm, at the total neglect of the male orgasm. An earlier comment made to you suggested to look in the direction of proteins present after orgasm in the male that aren't there before, or in the female to examine biochemical dependence of the refractory period. However I would also hazard to guess that there is a neurochemical component since if we are to believe the anecdotes men also experience fatigue after ejaculatory orgasm (though personally I find this nonsense). Actually I stumbled onto this particular site while looking for information on Pfizer's new drug (about to be approved most likely by the FDA) sidenafil, tradenamed 'Viagra': the first oral treatment of male erectile dysfunction. You might experiment with that, as well as I have heard of anecdotal evidence that Upjohn's Caverject has led to multiple ejaculatory orgasms.
All in all your research I believe is vital. (I will stick to my research into Superstring Theory, and particle physics though :-).) You might also research pc contractions and other neurological activity that would explain the wonderful pleasure of non-ejac. and continuous multiple orgasms; in particular most of us who use started with the technique methods, but now rely mainly on relaxing into non-ejac. mult. orgasms are not complaining in the slightest but trying to desseminate knowledge! However, it would be nice to have multiple ejac. orgasms in our arsenal as well, as well as an understanding of the refractory period. Sorry for the messy organization of this reply. Kirk
First off, please let me say that I fully enjoyed your comments, and agree with much of what you say, as well as wish to thank you for your kind remarks. As regards the technique-driven orgasms you defend (and understandably so), let me illustrate something for you by turning this around for a moment...
Ask a multiorgasmic woman sometime if she would consider learning voluntary breathing and/or muscle control techniques so as to stop her post-orgasmic contractions, and thus halt that pleasurable aspect of her orgasm. (Oh, and while you're at it, try convincing her that it's more pleasurable that way.) Try it out sometime. And, should you have the balls to do so, let me guess her response. After first withering you with a gaze that clearly indicates she is seriously re-evaluating your intelligence, she would most likely respond in such a manner as to remove all doubt but that her re-evaluation was decidely not in your favor.
I hope someday to provide men with the same motivation to respond likewise, and with as much forcefulness. Why use techniques which, in effect, abort the body's natural and pleasurable post-orgasmic contractions, when you can enjoy them all to their fullest, and STILL (as with women) be able to keep on keepin' on — for as long as you and your partner desire?
Consider this for a moment: if a female orgasms quickly, is this termed a sexual dysfunction? Does a woman experience “performance anxiety†in worrying about orgasming too quickly? And yet, in the male, “premature ejaculation†affects approximately 33% of all men. Only in the male can enjoying an orgasm “too quickly†be termed a “dysfunction.†And why? Because of the Male Refractory Period (MRP).
It is truly not the intent of this website to cast aspersions on the ejaculatory control techniques you mention, but to announce that there may be a true solution on the horizon that will enable men to fully enjoy their sexuality — and without limits.
At present, men have no choice. Either they experience a single orgasm and wait out the MRP, or they can use techniques to prolong their pleasure which require them to abort their orgasm, sacrificing the pleasures of its post-orgasmic contractions so as to experience other such aborted orgasms. And should these techniques not be executed properly, and at the right time, the male sacrifices both the pleasures of the contractions, as well as the pleasures of further such orgasms and must “suffer†the consequences of the MRP. Either way, men are made to sacrifice pleasure. For women, there are no such sacrifices required.
You mention that you prefer actual, empirically-evidenced research to anecdotal. I fully agree with you. Thus, though anecdotal evidence certainly exists of the pleasures of technique-driven multiple orgasms, empirical evidence exists which contradicts it when compared to natural multiple orgasms. At my “previous studies†page, I quote Dr. Prakash Kothari who, comparing the technique-driven male multiple orgasms to those naturally experienced by females, states as follows: “Female multiorgasmic experience requires no such efforts and if any concentration is required, it is only on the existing pleasurable sensations and on those which are going to follow... By and large, the male multiorgasmic experience is the outcome of effort but for the female it is an effortless experience.â€
When cognitive “effort†is required, the mind and body cannot but be distracted from the pleasure as it concentrates to whatever degree such voluntary “effort†requires. This is also addressed by Kothari as follows: "The intensity of orgasmic pleasure is reduced in (male) multiorgasm. This is because the voluntarily-initiated striated muscle contractions at a critical point (orgasmic inevitability or ejaculatory inevitability), if sustained, merge and interfere with their own pleasure laden, clonic involuntary rhythm associated with the orgasmic experience."
Now, while practice and experience may make this effort less distracting, still the effort remains cognitive and voluntary, not involuntary, requiring conscious effort and thought. This cannot help but distract the male from the pleasure at some level. Of course I understand that, compared to only a single orgasm, such orgasms are probably overall more pleasurable given their greater quantity. However, beyond the anecdotal, the empirical shows that, compared to the natural orgasms of multiorgasmic females, they are not. Nor, would I venture, to those of naturally multiorgasmic males, — and for the same reasons.
I hope to someday provide men with the key to experiencing natural multiple orgasms firsthand. At that point, they will truly understand the differences between the pleasures of technique-driven, abortive orgasms, and those of full, natural, and uninhibited multiple orgasms. The difference is truly remarkable.
000051
Tuesday 03/24/1998 3:35:00am
Kirk Kaminsky
kaminsky@phys.ualberta.ca
Edmonton, Canada
Thank you for your reply... I didn't realize that this is an 'active site'.
Your points are taken, and I have since thought of many things to add. I think that there are many subjective issues here (like intensities, and 'pleasure', etc.) that are going to resist quantitative or even semi-quantitative definition, never mind comparison (especially between descriptive impressions of orgasms of any variety of either sex, which as any textbook on human sexuality will vividly demonstrate, it is virtually impossible to distinguish between subjective impressions of orgasm). In lieu of this, the best we can do is work operationally: this is crucial. If I operationally do not distinguish between the pleasure I experience (subjectively, but that is all that is important anyways on this issue) in terms of description between a ejac. orgasm (which in your translation dictionary you refer to as 'post-orgasmic contractions'...which seems to validate the 'techniques claim' that they are POST-orgasm i.e.. significantly less important, to which Chia et. al, and us 'technicians' typically agree) and a series or near continuum of non-ejac. but 'relaxed' (I must disagree with the word choice 'aborted' but I don't want to drown in semantics as this issue will inevitably lead) orgasms (in comparing ONE of the latter, where we can even quantize them (!! read: I no longer can) to the former since we have quantity on our side in this case as well), then why obsess about ejaculation? Whew, that was the longest run-on sentence I have ever constructed...as you can tell I am as obsessed with this issue as you are. In other words, it all completely depends on how I feel at 'session's end': if I feel like I have experienced the pleasure x orgasms, where x exceeds one, then this is all that is important in this whole multiple orgasm framework. But, let us for the sake of the argument accept that the non-ejac. orgasms are less intense...and sometimes they are IN ISOLATION (assuming we have somehow quantized them again), but given my earlier discussion about variance (and women very often suffer variance to the very mild end far more than the old faithful male orgasm; hell check Dr. Ruth's text) this is to be completely expected. (In this sense our whole discussion between true vs. mimicked, ejac. vs. non-ejac., contractile vs. expulsion, etc. is totally futile and we should I think keep this in mind.) Now given that we have accepted this weaker intensity hypothesis (and your Dr. P. as I argued earlier provides no clinical evidence to the contrary...esp. given he had only one subject as well) permit me to turn your story around on you...go ask your hypothetical woman what would she rather have, a five-minute continuous 'full body' (I think this concept can be precisely determined without using the pseudo-science 'energy' crap of Chia et. al. which just reflects 'ancient ignorance' about neurology) orgasm that ranges from 50-75% intensity of a discrete orgasm that will leave you (as it leaves many of us technicians) breathless, stupified, grinning, happy beyond our previous hopes, etc. or have 6 (your subject's number, or discretely multiply orgasmic women) discrete, fully abandoned (the antithesis to your term 'aborted') orgasms over a period of 60 minutes (your subject's time?...sorry forgot the numbers)? 30 min? 10 min? even 5 min? The answer, unless SHE is completely out of it, in which case I will give her the same look you describe to me (oh so cruel :-), we theoretical physicists just don't get the respect we deserve anymore), is an equally obvious no. Now your hypothetical female anecdote is valid insofar as right now we don't have the choice. As you point out it is become a technician, or suffer MRP (the question is meaningless to a woman who isn't practicing the Chia et. al section for women). To most technicians myself included, the answer in the interim of your forthcoming wonderful discovery of the protein that is slowly metabolized to cause MRP to is to obviously choose the former, especially if operationally we are that much 'happier' and claim we have experienced that much more pleasure. And let me add a personal anecdote, and rip off a quote "and I chose the former, and it has made all the difference". I can see the value of your subject's discrete ejaculatory (uninhibited, unabandoned, 'true') orgasms (in which case I could replicate the remainder of the female multi-orgasmic response that I currently can't account for...plus the fun of having a fluid) orgasms, but unless I can actually continue to experience the continuous waves of pleasure mediated now only by my breathing rate (hell, little concentration is required, and thoughts often drift — so voluntary control is negligible) in what I can ALREADY DO WITH the techniques, I might very well abandon the availability (esp. if there were side-effects) of a drug which would simply promise the ability to experience ejac. multi. orgasms. Ejaculation is just not that important in comparison to orgasm...in my humble opinion.
Thus in particular while your research will examine one end of the MMO. (i.e.. the full ejaculatory variety), as good scientists we must also continue to clinically document, and examine this incredible non-ejac. multiple orgasm in men much more than the pathetic amount done so far....in my years of research, I came up with precisely the same previous studies you did, and that quantity is disgusting compared with the equivalent literature on women.
When enough anecdotal evidence piles up, eventually it should lead to good science in an effort to understand it. I am certainly convinced of the power and elegance, and when you get good enough at it, the simplicity of the non-ejac. mult. or., and when you do read anecdotal evidence that corroborates one's own experience as precisely as I have seen, this tends of course to reinforce that belief of course.
For instance this occurred yet again this morning as I read a 'testimonial' of a guy who claims experiencing this laid-back (permit my colloquialism) continuous orgasm, and who was expecting the more discrete variety....kind of like 'why isn't this going away'. The first time I experienced that, I thought precisely the same, and had the widest grin for like two days...especially when I realized it has been there all along, that it matches these peoples and many WOMEN's descriptions of the phenomena, and because I have become sufficiently adept at falling back into orgasm as opposed to forward (to the point where EFFECTIVELY no cognitive or muscular control is necessary, it just happens on its own — i.e.. not aborted — the control of muscle and breathing has been transferred into my cerebellular 'memory' like learning any other motor task in life!).
As an aside, this man's testimony brings me to a very big point that I think the danger we are possibly heading to here, is to stereotyping the orgasmic experience too far.
And I think that if we did learn anything from women, is that this doesn't necessarily work, and the variety of sexual experience (and capacity, and desire which is a neglected patron of this argument) is enormous. Now you have outlined a precise definition of what you consider to be true male multiple orgasm. Fine, it would be the natural one given the context that normally a male ejaculates. But this certainly does not mean that (as we do all the time in mathematics) we simply use an axiom that is less restrictive. An axiom is an axiom. The operational satisfaction which is ultimately a subjective impression is what is singled out as unique. The world doesn't necessarily conform to our axioms (as we learn time and time again in physics, and throughout science). In this case the discrepancies between definitions reduce to a label, because we (the technicians who are sufficiently thrilled at the results) are sufficiently convinced of the pleasure our own bodies experience multiplied through the ten-fold, twenty-fold increase in duration over the standard response, and in this subjective context, the associated happiness.
All arguments aside the happiness at the end of the day is the factor, not an arbitrarily chosen definition. You claim the full ejaculatory multiple orgasm is so significantly more desirable (on the basis of one subject who ultimately is giving you a subjective impression of things like intensities, and happiness just as the technicians are). OK, now go prove this in the years to come. If we technicians are sufficiently convinced in our experience, then we certainly don't mind waiting for your breakthrough...of which I am sure a trivial amount of funding would find a rather trivial answer, and a simple solution to the MRP.
As I have repeatedly stressed, this does not invalidate in any way the search for the MRP mechanism, and its its eradication (to which it has always surprised me that millions of dollars haven't flowed into this...another statement of how taboo sexual issues, and male sexual issues in particular are still in society).
That is why I was thrilled to discover your research, though I have often heard claims (including from my brother, and the people who have written to you previously) of multi-ejaculatory men, and would love to contribute in any way I could. The key thing to me is that you are actually interested in the cause of the MRP, and I am desperately trying to recall some research done in the UK on the matter, but focussing on brain chemistry instead of genital chemistry. Also I am positive that research on 'lower animals' has been done with respect to examining the source of the MRP...with as I recall surprising results.
One final note (I promise). I think your site has blown up a little too far female sexuality. I definitely don't want to spark debate here since this is not a central issue, but permit me a excerpt by Dr. Al Cooper, the clinical director of the San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre who writes a column for Men's Health Magazine (through which I discovered the Caverject revolution...remember this whole time we are discussing orgasm, there is a revolution going on in the field of treatment of impotence...just check the stock price and Reuter's news articles pertaining to Pfizer in the last week). He writes, in response to a man who wishes to help his singly orgasmic partner to have more orgasms but whose attempts are futile. (My partner is also singly orgasmic, despite our efforts, but ultimately she and I care more about the intimacy and emotional aspect of sexuality when we are together... another aspect we are neglecting, in which case both she and I are amply satisfied with the 'standard' response in both of us... when I am alone, it is a different ballpark, and raw physical pleasure is 'serious' business).
In any case his reply (yes, I am appealing to an authority here, but so do you, and certainly this is a reasonable one): "...Now to your question. The idea of a woman having orgasm after orgasm until she's perspiring and exhausted is largely media hype. The less exciting truth is that approximately 20% of women are multiorgasmic [in practice], 10 percent are nonorgasmic, and 70 percent have one orgasm at a time. The arousal pattern of these women is similar to that of men... What you need to clarify is this: Is your partner a multiorgasmic woman who isn't realizing her potential, or is she satisfied with her response and the desire for additional orgasms is more yours than hers? ...I suggest you pull back from this narrow focus on multiple orgasms (which is typically more important to men than women) and take a broader view of intimacy to ensure that you're both getting what you want out of your lovemaking." (Men's Health, June 1996)
We're not here to discuss female sexuality, and you can take the above or leave it of course, but I think certainly that the three points here are that
a) while women may have the potential your site continually reminds us all of, it is not usually realized (go to any textbook on human sexuality, and complaint any woman has ever had sexually, Dr. Ruth, etc.: it isn't always a rose garden there either, and we shouldn't expect women to conform to this idealized potential),
b) to many women (and many men whom I've talked to) this technical issue isn't the end-all-be-all of sexuality. If it is then make it a masturbation issue...as I have. Most of us are sufficiently content in the long run to have a caring, considerate partner, etc., etc., and
c) when with a partner, there are broader issues involved that can be as important. As beautiful, and powerful, and panecaeic (sp.) as orgasm can be, love and sex as the physical expression of love between two people are as important.
And with that, before I drown in a sea of corniness, I thank you kindly for your attention (if you have made it this far) and have hopefully brought up some food for thought for you and the readers of this site. Now I must get some sleep. Good luck.
Given the length and breadth of your reply, I can certainly understand after composing same why you would feel the need for sleep! (Don't worry, I'm just kidding!)
There are several points made in your reply, and while I could respond fully to each, my reply would be twice the length of yours — and anyone visiting the site besides ourselves would be bored out of their minds just trying to wade through it all. In short my reply is this.
I am not attempting to invalidate the anecdotal evidences of the pleasures experienced via technique-driven, non-ejaculatory orgasm. Should such be your primary interest, there are many sites and books out there which document and discuss this. In fact, though actual scientific studies are indeed few, as you have also discovered, yet these same techniques and the philosophies behind them are over 4,000 years old. Thus, there are mountains of anecdotal evidence of the benefits to men of such orgasms to go along with the empirical laboratory evidence acquired in this century. What is missing, however, is any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of natural multiple orgasms in men. This was what set our study apart, and still does.
That said, however, I must point out that it is logically impossible to compare both kinds of orgasm unless you have personally experienced both. Thus, any attempts at one-up-mans-ship (sp?) is futile. This is why I used the example of the multiorgasmic woman. She could experience both types — and yet I have read no where where such women have ever chosen any such cognitive techniques in lieu of such natural multiple orgasms. Additionally, our male subject has also learned the PC muscle techniques so as to compare for himself, and finds the "whole body" experience you describe much less intense than that experienced with natural multiple orgasm. Thus, given the evidence, I must conclude that unless or until I am able to discover where those naturally multiorgasmic have chosen to forego same for the pleasures of technique-driven orgasms, I must side with the opinions of such multiorgasmics who can experience both, and have chosen natural orgasms over those using inhibitory cognitive techniques.
Finally, this site has never purported to be the "be all" and "end all" for human sexual and/or emotional relationships. Obviously, there's more to a relationship than sex, no matter how pleasurable. It has never been my intention to claim otherwise. This site is intended solely for the purpose of announcing that for the first time empirical evidence exists which strongly indicates that the Male Refractory Period (MRP) may not be as universal as has been claimed, and that there exists at least one male who appears by all evidence so far to have been born without one. And, as you have quite well recognized, this is indeed the true crux of the matter. I too am amazed that the millions which have gone into other areas of male sex research (dysfunction research, in particular) have not been directed toward a thorough investigation into the MRP. Perhaps it has been too likened to the Sound Barrier, — impassable, immovable, and universal. Of course, the Sound Barrier was ultimately broken, proving that often what is thought impossible, is not. We hope to someday prove the same for this supposedly universal barrier, as well.
Thank you again for your comments.
000052
Tuesday 03/24/1998 11:42:00am
Kirk Kaminsky
kaminsky@phys.ualberta.ca
Edmonton, Canada
One final question and comment before I move on. The thing is we the technicians can nevertheless compare the non-ejac. experience with the ejac. experience, and we unanimously disagree with your subject with respect to intensities, and it is inaccurate to use women via the same logical impossibility argument that we both have been making the whole time. And given continuous vs. discrete, I'll take continuous over any number of ejac. orgasms, or female discrete experiences. Remember this is all subjective!
My question is when is this paper expected to be published?
Now I promise to move on. :-)
Were the only choices available those you mention, I would agree with you, as well. And while I would hope you don't truly intend to speak for all males out there, the point is doubly moot given that you cannot comment on nor compare that which you have not experienced. As you say, and as I have also, it is subjective. Thus by definition, you cannot speak subjectively, much less objectively, until such time as you are able to experience the naturally-ejaculatory multiple orgasms which our male subject has since childhood. In short, don't knock it 'til you've tried it, — that is, assuming our research might ultimately result in offering males that option.
The paper is expected to be published just as soon as the publication review board gives its approval. We are waiting to hear back.
000053
Wednesday 03/25/1998 1:56:00am
Thom
Canada
I have been checking your web page daily since I found it and find it very interesting. I would imagine just about any guy with a healthy sex drive has thought about this subject many many times in his life.
However, there is one thing that has always puzzled me about the female sexual capacity. If women have this unlimited ability to orgasm, why is it that women seem more interested in the romantic aspects of sex? I'm talking about hugging, kissing, just being together etc. You know, if I could masturbate for 3 hours straight I bloody well would. I would never be seen in public again. I don't understand this. It seems that men are more aware of this, and make a bigger deal of it than women. When was the last time you heard a woman say "You know, I think I'm going to go home and orgasm all day" And guys, you all know that if you could you would. Basically my point is this: Do we guys actually over rate this whole thing a bit???
Because it seems to me that men care more about a womans orga
Were you going to say that it seems men care more about a woman's orgasm than perhaps she does? At times I'm sure it seems that way. I agree with you, it is a bit puzzling. However, before proceeding on this, let me restate that though women have the physiological potential for being multiorgasmic (i.e., no "necessary" refractory period), not all women are. In fact, as the previous guest here has noted, less than half of all women report being multiorgasmic. This may be due to a number of factors, not the least of which is the fact that we all have varying levels of libido. Thus, men should no more stereotype women as multiorgasmic anymore than women should in assuming all men are not.
Your statement regarding women's view of their own sexuality is an interesting one. Rather than attempt to answer this myself, I would love to have any of our female visitors give it a shot.
Multiorgasmic women? As multiorgasmics, are you less inclined to masturbate hours on end, as would males were they in possession of this same capacity? And, given the ever-increasing levels of pleasure possible after several orgasms, why is the emotional and the romantic so much more important? Or is it? Additionally, do you perhaps notice any differences between your sexual expressions and attitudes as multiorgasmic women, and those of women who are not? I have my own ideas on this, but would much rather have you address this, yourselves.
Thank you for your comments, and hopefully we'll hear more on this from the women out there, soon.
000054
Saturday 03/28/1998 6:32:00am
steve
jabmaster@Earthlink.net
california
With the right stimulation I can continue to have orgasm's even thru the refac. period. Each time the volume of semen decreases till there is just a drop, but I still have a orgasm. Intensity also decreases as they happen. This has only happened during self manipulation (masterbation).
FANTASTIC WEBSITE!!!
By saying "thru" the refractory period, I assume you mean you are able to experience orgasm after losing your erection following natural orgasm. This has been documented, — although it is very rare! The decrease in semen expelled is certainly normal, of course. Good luck, and thanx for your comments. I'm glad you like the site. I'm no web designer and my site certainly doesn't have any of the fancy bells 'n' whistles of other sites, but I've tried to compensate with concise, comprehensive information on the subject, and will continue to build and expand as relevant information is made known to me.
And, for the many of you who have asked, I would like to report that news has been received which may permit me to add the study, itself, to the website before too much longer. I'll keep you all posted, of course.
000055
Monday 03/30/1998 10:07:00am
terry
Interesting study. What movie(s) did the participants watch?
Did they have a choice in the selection?
The participant in the study brought with him a video which he had prepared/compiled. I am not aware of exactly what material was on the video except that it contained normal sexual relations between consenting adults.
000056
Wednesday 04/01/1998 12:41:00am
Todd
New Jersey
Just wondering — where do you get your volunteers for lab studies on sexuality? I don't have any special sexual talents or problems, but I might be willing to participate in a study as a control subject, or something.
Well, in the case of our male subject, we didn't find him; he found us. He had tried for over ten years to find a research team willing to believe him enough to fund an initial study documenting this supposedly "impossible" capacity in the male.
As for your request, there is a possibility in the future that such control subjects might be needed. Of course, should the research progress to that point, I will let you all know.
000057
Friday 04/03/1998 7:48:55pm
Private Message 57
000058
Tuesday 04/14/1998 1:07:41pm
Dr. Tuck
I found the comments of the gentleman who would masturbate for hours if he could very interesting. I have previously written that my wife is multi-orgasmic and, when using such stimulation as a vibrator, will often orgasm for 10 minutes or more, with each successive orgasm being stronger and more pleasurable. She tells me that she uses both no technique or specific effort to produce these orgasms and a sense of full "release" and contraction with each one.
I feel more than a few twinges of jealousy when I have the opportunity to watch this, and yet... when I ask her if she sees this skill as something as great as I do she shrugs her shoulders and says something to the extent that she could take it or leave it. She too is far more focused on the affection and emotion of sex and, although she clearly enjoys this ecstacy, sees it (and in fact orgasms) as no big deal. Is this a matter of the grass is always greener phenomenon? That is, do we as males with MRP see the female (no MRP) orgasm as something more than what it really is? Or, is having this ability what makes women blasé about it — since they know they can why would they think about it. Men, perhaps, think about it more for several reasons. They have more libido-enhancing testosterone around of course. But perhaps they are also less fulfilled by their mono-orgasms than they would wish. I would venture to say that if we (males with MRP) were able to have a 10 minute multi with no holding back that we, too, would be less obsessed and concerned with orgasms.
I'm not sure if this makes any specific point, but I thought I would share my thoughts none-the-less.
Excellent commentary. I have nothing to add to it.
000059
Wednesday 04/15/1998 5:05:41am
Thom
Canada
Well Dr.Tuck, I found your comments about my response very interesting. I agree with you that it is the old "grass is greener on the other side" type of thing. When I mention anything about masturbating all day to a woman, she rolls her eyes and says something like "Oh my god, get a life" or "yeah okay, like I'm going to do that" It's certainly interesting. I can't imagine being able to sit around and masturbate for a few hours, but as you mentioned it is something women can and do do. Perhaps women take multiple orgasms for granted. I believe they do. I have spoken to one woman who claimed 20 orgasms from masturbation is quite routine for her. Hard to believe. Like I said before, if I could masturbate all day I would. It would be hard to live any type of functional life. Perhaps this is the main difference between the sexes, women can cum all day. But in most cases don't. Men can't cum all day, but if they could they would. Strange.
000060
Thursday 04/16/1998 1:13:50am
Brian M.
mccandliss@hotmail.com
Florida, USA
I can't believe that I have finally found research on this subject; I have been seeking such information, but have to date been unable to find anything on the subject — male multiple orgasm that doesn't include the words "non-ejaculatory" and "breathing techniques" etc. This has always been a major issue with me, as I expect it would with any man, seeming to be a natural injustice, especially considering men's higher drive, i.e. men want it more, but are can't get it as much.
With all respect to people who DO enjoy tantrics (withholding techniques) et al., such practices feel more to me like yoga than the real thing (unlimited orgasms); in my experience they have, despite sincere and continued practice, resulted in feelings more of intense frustration (from having to resist an irresistable urge) than anything desireable; the very fact that one must limit the amount of pleasure he may experience for some future promise of greater pleasure seems dubious, as as these so-called "male multiple orgasms" are as nothing compared to the full-blown ejaculatory experience, and what pleasure they DO bring is quite nullified by the frustration they impose. They simply go on longer, that's all — and the frustration along with them; as a result, I have given up on "withholding" techniques altogether; the old adage of "practice makes perfect" in addressing such complaints indicates more of an attempt simply to fault the system than to fix it, i.e. the person, rather than his physiology, is called upon to be in need of change, when the simple fact is that MRP is a nuisance which no longer serves any necessary biological purpose for the individual — Mother Nature, I can regulate my own abstinence, thank you! Therefore, it is MRP which should be dealt with directly, not "male impatience."
I have studied the issue of MRP for quite some time now, despite the lack of information available on the subject; to date, our so-called "male-dominated" culture has expressed its concern for male fulfillment vicariously, being almost wholly absorbed in praise and worship of the sexual response of the female, witnessed by Masters and Johnson's describing the female sexual response as as being "far superior" to the male's; as far as the sexual response goes, the public attitude seems to be one of disgust and indifference, accepting the single-ejaculation response as completely satisfactory, or at least an unchangeable fact short of tantric witholding techniques; the issue of curing MRP was, as I mentioned earlier, never mentioned publicly prior to this date; in fact, public interest was so lacking that a fully multi-orgasmic male (i.e. unlimited ejaculations with no loss of erection) was forced to give up hope of being a research subject for his abilities, due to being unable to find anyone who wanted to study them!
Biologically speaking, it seems that men have been given the short end of the stick in terms of discrepancy between desire and fulfillment, i.e. anorgasmia in women tends to flow more from simple lack of sexual drive to begin with, rather than some sort of iron roadblock that pops up out of the blue, as with MRP; when given male hormones, women become as libidinous, and orgasm as easily, as men — but still to not experience MRP.
Meanwhile, in terms of pleasure enhancement, women are urged to "go for it" until their orgasms become stronger and more continuous, while men are advised to — you guessed it — "hold back" and enjoy so-called "first-stage" orgasms, while struggling to make sure they don't "go too far (i.e. get TOO much pleasure and ejaculate) — metaphorically speaking, she goes surfing, while he teases the water's edge, making sure not to get his feet wet. No one ever suggests that a woman "hold back," despite the fact that the female urge to reach orgasm is usually less than the male's.
If anything is being done to find a cure for MRP, it can't come too soon. I would definitely be interested in any literature on this subject to date, and anything which can be done to further the issue; up until now, all efforts in the area of reproductive physiology were entirely geared toward animal husbandry and curing of reproductive dysfunction. As I said, no seems to think of MRP as presenting any sort of problem; perhaps this is due to its universal nature, by which people are more accepting of it; however, I must ask if the majority of men are really content with this condition, which presents such an enormous barrier of frustration to what they otherwise consider their subject of greatest interest.
Brian, what can I say? You have pretty much said it all. My congratulations to you. The Male Refractory Period (MRP) is the true issue here. Always has been. While those males who have invested so much time and energy (and perhaps, money) into these "techniques" will continue to defend them in justification of their investment, I think most men out there realize, as do you, that this inadequately treats the symptoms of the MRP rather than identifies the cause(s) — and finds the cure. Natural, limitless sexual capacity cannot help but be more desirable than limited, abortive orgasms requiring the constantly tedious and ironic task of "holding back" pleasure — so as to prolong it. And thus, it is my hope to ultimately discover the causes and find that cure. Thank you, Brian, for your comments.
000061
Thursday 04/23/1998 4:05:44am
Brian M.
mccandliss@hotmail.com
I would like to add another comment to the "grass is greener" argument...here it is necessary to separate capacity from desire; i.e. libido ("lust" or appetite) and capacity for orgasm are distinct phenomenae and controlled by separate processes; most notably, libido is affected by levels of testosterone and hypothalamic regulation mechanisms, while capacity is controlled by other physiological processes.
Therefore, the statement by women that they can "take it or leave it" is indicative of a lower level of overall sexual tension, i.e. they have less motive, while men, having higher levels of testosterone, are more highly driven even though capacity is significantly lower. Therefore, it's not that the "grass is greener," but rather that there is an actual difference which is inherently frustrating in nature by preventing greater indulgence of a stronger desire.
This is an important distinction. Were libido a major determining factor in sexual capacity, it might be presumable that all men of high libido would exhibit a similarly high degree of sexual capacity, and yet almost all males exhibit the same, limited sexual capacity (physiology) as evidenced by the Male Refractory Period (MRP). Great point!
000062
Sunday 04/26/1998 6:26:42pm
manuel michel
michel@pctop.com.mx
Soy de México
Quiziera tener información sobre sus técnicas de multiorgasmo, yo he querido practicarlo pero no tengo quien me guie para hacerlo por favor si me pueden enviar la informacion en español gracias.
Atentamente
[I would like to have information about your techniques multiorgasmic. I want to practice but I have no one to guide me. Please do it if you can post the information in Spanish. Thanks.
Best regards] Spanish
+manuel michel
Como quisiera que pudiera darle a Ud. la información deseada. Desafortunadamente, no se ha descubierto todavía la manera de evitar por completo el período refractorio. El hombre que estudiamos no se utiliza "técnicas" de ninguna clase. Igual a las mujeres multiorgásmicas, él lo hace naturalmente. Esperamos poder descubrir como que sea distinto su fisiología sexual. Porque si lo descubrimos, quizá podremos descubrir como ofrecerlos a todos esta misma capacidad. Gracias por su pregunta.
[How I wish I could give you the desired information. Unfortunately, it has not yet figured out how to completely avoid the refractory period. The man we studied didn't use "techniques" of any kind. Equal to the multi-orgasmic women, he does it naturally. We hope to find out how that is different sexual physiology. Because if we found it, perhaps we can find out how provide everyone all the same capacity. Thanks for your question.]
000063
Monday 04/27/1998 6:57:34pm
Brian M.
mccandliss@hotmail.com
Could you provide an English translation of the previous message please?
He was just asking if I could give him information on the "techniques" used by our male subject. I was just letting him know that our male subject uses none (same as with multiorgasmic women), and that someday we hope to discover why he was born as he is, and how perhaps this ability might be made available to others.
As I'm bilingual, I answered him in his own language.
000064
Tuesday 05/05/1998 7:00:52am
Theunis Kruger
tkprivate@hotmail.com
South Africa
Do you have any information on medication that will prevent the refractory period in males? (If there is evidence that the refractory period is caused by the secretion of prolactin)
At present, I am not aware of any such medication. To my knowledge, there is currently no research which has investigated the causes of the Male Refractory Period (MRP), and how the MRP can be avoided. Nor have I read anything, thus far, on the effects of prolactin on the MRP. I have read that oxytocin appears to be at least a contributing factor, however. Once the study has been professionally published (this we expect to occur within a couple months), we hope to acquire funding such as will enable us to investigate the MRP fully, and hopefully discover how it might be avoided, if not eradicated.
000065
Tuesday 05/05/1998 9:55:37pm
Jerry
JERRYINSFO@worldnet.att.net
San Francisco, CA
Some 18 years ago I was the co-founder of what has come to be the oldest and largest club in the United States for men interested in participating in group masturbation. During my many years in the club, as well as before and since, up to the present day, I have had the opportunity to watch the masturbatory behavior of upwards of 8,000 men. I would imagine this number to be an adequate basis for making some comments about the incidence of multiple male orgasms (MMO), defined as two or more orgasms without intervening loss of erection.
My experience has been that MMO as defined above is virtually nonexistent. I can recall only a handful of examples (no pun intended), and these were cases of but two normal ejaculations without loss of erection. I have seen many instances of two, three or even four ejaculations in the course of a "session", with refractory periods in between. I am very certain of the accuracy of this, since 1) it was commonplace in the club for individual men to count the number of ejaculations per "session" (we sometimes divided into teams and kept score), 2) the presence of 150 or 200 other participants ensured a high level of stimulation, and 3) multiple ejaculation was strongly encouraged. I am quite certain that if any of the thousands of men that I encountered at this club and at other similar clubs around the world were capable of multiple male orgasm, their presence would have been quickly advertised to their fellow participants. I have never heard anyone mention that they had met such a person either at a club or in any other context.
Second, because of my lifelong interest in male ejaculation, about five or six years ago I rented a video from a company called "Focus International". FI specializes in videos and other materials to assist therapists and individuals in understanding and fulfilling their sexuality. It is definitely not a "porn" house. Anyway, the video that I rented purportedly was made by two doctors studying multiple male orgasms. Their "star" research subject was a man who in the video masturbated to ejaculation 7 times in 21 minutes, in research conditions similar to those you have described, including measurement of the ejaculate. The doctors testified in their video that during many sessions in their presence while not being filmed, the man ejaculated as many as 13 times with no loss of erection. I wonder if you have seen this video or heard of the study during which it was made, and would like to know if you think that it was legitimate. I have noticed that the film does not appear in more recent Focus International catalogs.
Thank you for your website and your pursuit of what I obviously consider to be am important area of research.
Thank you for relating your personal experience with the extreme rarity of this male capacity. Several years ago, prior to this research, I ran a survey in a local newspaper asking that women call in to respond to questions regarding male multiorgasmic response, and natural multiorgasmic response in particular. Though I received hundreds of responses from women (housewives to prostitutes), not a single one had ever experienced sex with a man exhibiting this capacity.
As regards the videotape you once saw advertised, I have never heard anything about such a video. My first reaction is to wonder whether or not this was natural multiorgasmic response, or as with the Kothari study referenced at my "Previous Studies" page, an example of technique-driven multiple orgasm wherein a small amount of ejaculate is permitted to be expelled with each orgasm. That the video is no longer offered is interesting, as you also mention.
(The day after answering your remarks, I received an email back from Focus International informing me that the video mentioned does exist. Regarding it, FI stated: "Yes this video exists and yes the subject was part of the research of William Hartman, Ph.D. and Marilyn Fithian." Thus, as I suspected, the male subject depicted uses the same ejaculatory-control techniques which their 1984 book, "Any Man Can", teaches. Not one of the males subjects studied by Hartman & Fithian exhibited the natural multiorgasmic capacity of our male subject.)
000066
Friday 05/08/1998 2:04:47am
Dan
When I was young I use to masturbate for ages. Obviously not with an erection or ejaculation, but could stimulate myself to orgasm all night by rubbing my dick with two hands while laying face down on my bed. I cannot remember exactly when I first began ejaculating but this ability came to an end at that point in time. It's quite obvious ejaculation plays a major role in MRP. Just the other night I tried a little experiment with Non-ejaculatory orgasms. I prevented ejaculation by squeezing my dick at the base. I'm sure lots of guys have tried this one. I found the results quite interesting. First of all, the orgasm didn't compare to a full ejaculatory orgasm. There was no after glow at all. Felt like I hadn't even had an orgasm (is that what women feel like after an orgasm?) My dick remained hard with no effort on my part, and my sexual desire was at the same level as it was before the orgasm. Unfortunatly, another orgasm was still fairly hard to achieve, even harder than it is after an ejaculat
Your entry certainly supports that which I have received from many men: the voluntary techniques, while "interesting," do not compare in pleasure or in afterglow (endorphin release) to that experienced with fully-ejaculatory orgasm. Yes, it is obvious that something involved in the ejaculatory process somehow triggers the MRP. However, it is not ejaculation (in and of itself) which triggers the superior pleasure and release of endorphins of natural orgasm; it is instead the experiencing, without interruption, of the entire, natural orgasmic process — which in the adult male, also includes ejaculation. This is why women do indeed experience wonderful pleasure and afterglow, if not multiple orgasm. They, too, experience the same orgasmic contractions which in the adult male cause ejaculation. You also experienced this prior to adolescence, as you stated. I'm sure that as a child, you still experienced wonderful orgasms and afterglow though you were not capable then of ejaculating. This is due to experiencing full, natural orgasm, including the same orgasmic contractions experienced by women. Again, strong evidence that natural ejaculation is what triggers the MRP. This is why our study is so crucial. It is the first to ever document such natural ejaculation whereafter no MRP is experienced. Thank you for your entry.
000067
Wednesday 05/13/1998 3:00:22pm
Steve
bigbeefman@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/bigbeefman/home.html
Canada originally. Mass. more recently
It is very interesting to see a mature and professional look into the subject of multiple male orgasmic response. Reading through the previously posted messages, it seems as if many different men have different approaches to either prolonging their erection and withholding the orgasm, or other means of longevity during intercourse. I myself believe that I'm of the very few men that can actually have true multiple orgasms. I've had up to four successive orgasms in a row without losing my erection in between climaxes. I'm not sure as to how or why I can do it, and to my understanding it's almost impossible for one to maintain an erection after orgasm. From viewing adult films, it's apparent because all of the actors that I've ever seen are all done after their "scene." I'm not sure if it's because the director wants it that way or not, but who knows. Usually, I can experience up to three orgasms on a regular basis while having sex. Maybe the "secret" is that I do not stop my movements after orgasm, or otherwise maintain the stimulation shortly thereafter. It helps, of course, if you are truly attracted to your partner and they are receptive to your efforts (if you know what I mean.) Maybe that's one of the biggest factors...the mental aspect. You've got to really be one with your partner. It helps if you love them, too.
Thank you for your remarks. And yes, this capacity in the male is rare.
000068
Sunday 05/17/1998 6:54:50am
Brian M.
mccandliss@hotmail.com
MRP and Male Impotence: A "Theory of Relativity" .............. ..........................
Since MRP pertains to loss of erectile as well as orgasmic capability, I would forward the question of how much of currently reported "impotence" is actually a result of "long-term" MRP, since MRP can be defined not simply as loss of erection and orgasmic capability, but a reduced degree of difficulty in achieving and maintaining such, as well as the intensity of both; it's not a black-and-white issue, but rather a relative level of response.
For instance, while MRP is currently defined as "a period of time during which the male is unable to attain erection or orgasm," the real story is that sexual response, i.e. erection and orgasm, are simply less intense, proportionate to the amount of time since the last orgasm; erection and orgasm are not absolute states, but rather are relative in nature, existing in relative degrees from nonresponsive to hyperexpressed, at which point orgasm can be achieved with little or no effort whatsoever.
This relative nature is due to relative degrees of influence from the respective conflicting forces of libido and MRP, the former of which increases with time, while the latter decreases; thus, erection and orgasm becomes impossible immediately after, when libido is satisfied and MRP most pronounced; however sexual response become more intense over time as MRP subsides, and libido builds to higher levels.
However, libido aside, it should be clear from this "theory of relativity" that the inhibiting effects of MRP can last much longer than the simple minimum time required to achieve a second erection or orgasm, since, as stated above, these are not absolute but relative states, i.e. maintaining erection and achieving orgasm simply become more difficult; for this reason, very little is know about how long the full effects of the MRP actually persist, and how much they are countered by the effects of libido.
For instance, my girlfriend can have 30 orgasms in 30 minutes, however it takes me at least a month of abstinence before I can respond that quickly even once.
It's like driving with the brakes on; until the brakes are off, there's no way to accurately measure performance, but you know that it is hampered.
We know that MRP increases with age, so it's possible that much impotence can be attributed not only to age-related decreases in libido and erectile function, but also to long-term persistence of MRP; meanwhile, the decreased intensity of response might be providing a psychological impetus as well, i.e. it's just not worth it.
While I would feel comfortable considering the MRP as a temporarily-experienced period of "impotence" (though not characterized by any outside influences [e.g., high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.]), I cannot find reason to consider the reverse to be true. And, I don't know as I would characterize the two (libido and MRP) as somehow inversely proportional, or for that matter, necessarily related in any way. Whereas the MRP is pretty much universal and appears to be influenced primarily by age, libido can vary widely from almost non-existent to obsessive and yet still exhibit little to no direct influence on the MRP. However, I could be wrong.
000069
Wednesday 05/20/1998 2:51:06pm
gary
Phila., PA
Is your study available to the public? Where can I get it? Does it tell you how to duplicate your results??
I am very pleased to announce that the study has been accepted for professional publication. The study is presently slated for publication in the September issue of the Journal of Sex Education and Therapy. In addition, the study will be the subject of a response given in the Playboy Advisor, to be published in the August issue of Playboy. Of course, as soon as the study is published, I shall also add the entire study to this website.
To answer your last question, the study does not describe how the results might be duplicated. The purpose of this initial study was to document the existence of natural, male multiple orgasm (i.e., without inhibiting ejaculation or any other aspect of the body's natural orgasmic responses). This we accomplished. Our next phase will be to investigate what the possible causes of the Male Refractory Period are. Only then can we hope to discover whether it might be possible to duplicate this response in other males of normal sexual capacity.
000070
Thursday 05/21/1998 9:10:12am
gary
phila, PA
Thank you for your reply. I just had the chance to review the other postings. I have had experiences with my wife similar to #29, Brian. I thought you might find it helpful in your research.
After having a natural orgasm ( I did not even know men could practice some "eastern" technique to have small restricted multi-orgasms until yesterday), I can continue to have sex, with an erection. Now this happens if
a) I am not too tired/or physically exhausted from the sexual activity leading up to the orgasm
b) I have the psychological fortitude to stay erect after the orgasm. In other words, I must use my mind in order to remain erect, because the friction during intercourse has been reduced by the introduction of semen in the vagina. So there is mental effort required.
Again the erection remains intact, but is more "flexible" than prior to the orgasm. As time goes on after the orgasm and as intercourse continues, as the friction builds up again, my "full" erection will continue. I can have a second orgasm, anytime after that. The second orgasm varies in intensity. It has been strong at least twice. It has been mild a few time. It has been non existent a few times.
Another thing you might be interested in. If I watch an adult video at home, alone, I can reach orgasm very quickly ( I am 35 years old). If after orgasm, I do not turn off the video, I will remain erect, with a slight decrease in erection firmness, and continue to masterbate, and reach orgasm again. The second orgasm could come as quick as 5 minutes later. I have even done this for a total or 3 orgasm (again, all full natural ones) in maybe 13 minutes, and 4 in 20 minutes.
This seems to be reasonable because masterbating is much less physically demanding than intercourse, and the video relieves your mind (after each orgasm) of having to mentally keep yourself erect. The images do it for you so to speak.
I will try to get the March 1997 Red Book and the Playboy article.
One question. If I was to try to do the "easter" technique of multi mini non-natural orgasm, just to try it , which book should I get or which author's technique is most satisfying?
It would appear that you have some experience with what more men have discovered, and that is that perhaps a single natural orgasm does not have to be all that there is. If you want more, perhaps it's not ridiculous to think you can have more without first losing your erection. It would be interesting to see if the pleasure intensity of the 2nd orgasm might be proportional to an increase in the potential for a 3rd or 4th (or more) orgasm, still on the same erection. In other words, does greater pleasure in subsequent orgasm help to make possible more multiple orgasms?
As for the techniques, I can only recommend Hartman and Fithian's book "Any Man Can" (1984), which you can check out at any public library, as this is the only book based on actual scientific evidence. There are "tantric" books which teach more Taoist techniques (e.g., breathing, relaxation, "psychic" orgasm, etc.). However, I personally find my capacity to lend credibility to most anything is inversely proportional to the degree of "mysticism" and/or "esoteric" nature that is attached to the idea. But hey, that's me. Thanx for your comment.
000071
Friday 05/22/1998 11:08:02pm
Stephen
New Zealand
Your presentation is a very interesting and objective view of orgasmic response in males.
I have a couple of questions that may be worth considering in any prospective studies, although I must confess that my understanding of sexual physiology is practically nil.
The MRF is, as most of the comments in your guestbook suggest, a function of male ejaculatory response accompanying orgasm. With this in mind...
1. Do those women who exhibit (the rumored???) ejaculatory ability also experience decreased multiple orgasmic response?
2. Does the volume of ejaculate bear any relation to the length of the MRF?
Regards, — Stephen
Thank you for your kind remarks. To answer your questions: 1. I know of women who exhibit the female "ejaculation" you reference and are nevertheless very multiorgasmic. Thus, I must conclude that female physiology and sexual response are unaffected by this. 2. The volume of ejaculate expelled in normal, uninhibited ejaculation appears to have no effect on the MRP (male refractory period). Age and/or state of arousal appear to be the greatest determining factors in this. Speaking of arousal, this might be a good time to briefly touch on the subject of what's called the "Coolidge Effect."
The "Coolidge Effect" was coined following a visit by Pres. Calvin Coolidge and his wife to a chicken farm. Mrs. Coolidge, who had preceded her husband on a tour of the farm, viewed a rooster as he mounted several hens in close succession. Watching this for awhile, she asked her tour guide how often the rooster did that. The guide answered that he did so dozens of times a day. "Tell that to Mr. Coolidge," she retorted. A bit later, President Coolidge passed by this same yard and was given Mrs. Coolidge's remarks. President Coolidge responded by asking if the rooster did so with only one hen. "Oh, of course not, Mr. President," came the reply. "Well," smiled the President. "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge."
Males will often experience either a much more brief, or altogether absent, MRP when arousal is heightened to extraordinary levels, such as when given opportunity to experience a new partner or partners. Unfortunately, this effect (Coolidge Effect) is not permanent, nor does it usually produce natural multiorgasmic response in males. However, it will cause heightened capacity to that normally experienced while the heightened arousal is in effect.
000072
Tuesday 05/26/1998 4:54:55pm
Brian M.
mccandliss@hotmail.com
In adding to the answer to the following message, the tape "how to female ejaculate," available in the adult section of most video stores, shows women ejaculating several times in quick succession (one woman did it about 4 times with just a few minutes apart). However, the ejaculation seemed to be expelled in a single continuous flow, as opposed to several distinct expulsions as with the normal male ejaculation; I do not know if there is any significance to this, but it may have to do with the brain-prostate connection by which male ejaculation is triggered.
Also, I wonder if any studies have been done on long-term female users of testosterone, to see if they incur a similar effect to MRP due to masculinization of sexual areas of the brain and body.
I have read very little about female ejaculation. However, I am a bit skeptical concerning it. A few years ago, a well-known sex researcher told me that the chemical composition of the female "ejaculate" proves beyond a doubt that it is nothing more than urine, plain and simple. Thus, I would welcome a study that first requires a woman to fully and completely empty her bladder before attempting to document this phenomenon. To date, I know of no scientific study which includes this as a verifiable pre-requisite. Again, your observations of the video match my own: the woman does not "ejaculate" in pulses which correspond with any orgasmic contractions, but rather as though she were merely starting and stopping the urinary flow, voluntarily. Hence, the "flow" you observed rather than the pulses one would expect, given that women also experience the rhythmic orgasmic contractions that in the male produce ejaculation.
As for your question regarding testosterone-enhanced females, I can only add that I agree it would be an intriguing idea. However, I doubt it would produce a "mandatory," physiologically-produced refractory period.
000073
Sunday 06/07/1998 6:38:56am
tfox
tfox@edge.net
TN, USA
I think that the supposed rarity of multi-ejaculatory orgasms is due only to the lack of willingness on the part of males to learn the technique. I started this at the age of 21 as I was dating a small-boned girl who was 'exceptionally tight'. I had problems with premature ejaculation and began employing the 'squeeze play' (squeezing the base of the penis just prior to ejaculation) to prolong intercourse. Within a few weeks I was able to use the PC muscle to partially stop the ejaculatory flow, and eventually I began simply ejaculating and then continuing the lovemaking. After ejaculation I experience a slight decrease in erection — and this is a very crucial time period! — but if I continue full strokes the erection will fill out again and I can continue on to the next ejaculation, which is always more intense and lasting than the first. I have achieved up to 3 ejaculations in one session many times, and have continued on with erection, but never been able to achieve a 4th orgasm due to either a lack of physical stamina or lack of mental discipline. I would like to add that because of the importance of sensation right after ejaculation, I have found it very difficult to be multi-orgasmic using condoms. On the occasions that this has been achieved the condom generally ruptures (I think because the head of the penis squeezes into the reservoir tip during the erection decrease, and then refills. Lack of lubrication at this critical period may also be playing a part.) or must be replaced due to the need to refit the condom. I have dated several women who are not 'tight' since divorcing and can say that the technique is not so dependent on friction as much as control. Although abundant friction will probably help during the learning period.
I think you need to go back and review the focus and content of this website. This site has absolutely nothing to do with the technique-driven orgasms (ejaculatory or otherwise) that you experience. What you describe is not rare, at all, as you say. Since 1984, the book "Any Man Can" has taught males that, indeed, any man can learn these voluntary techniques. Any man (or most of them, at least) who wish to learn the voluntary techniques can learn to mimic multiorgasmic capacity. But, this is not true multiorgasmic response. Were you to not stop your orgasms, voluntarily, the Male Refractory Period would prevent you from having more of them. True male multiorgasmic capacity needs no techniques, no withholding of the ejaculatory process, no "squeeze play," no "PC muscle" manipulations, no special exercises, no dietary regimens, no pills, no drugs, — get the picture? Do women require any of these to be naturally multiorgasmic? Neither does our male subject.
What we documented was true, natural male multiorgasmic response, with full, natural, and uninhibited ejaculation with each orgasm. This is what this website is about.
000074
Tuesday 06/09/1998 3:09:23pm
gary
Philadelphia, PA
I have posted here before and am adding something else based on some new experiences. I have been able to have, what I believe, is a true multi-orgasm. It wasn't too involved or difficult. All I did was to breath fully during intercourse. I had an orgasm, and then, less than 15 SECONDS later, I had a second orgasm. Then I continued to have intercourse until my wife needed more lubrication. This came as a total shock to me. I had been experimenting with full breathing, for about a week prior to this. No "Eastern mystical" methods employed (I don't even know them) but just full "athletic" breathing. During my experimentation, I found that if I just breath fully (rather than pant) and do not clench my buttock/PC or any other muscles during orgasm, but just relax, I can continue having intercourse with no loss in the strength of my erection. Now I must say that this orgasm that I have is a real one, with ejaculation and no "squeezing" of anything, but IT IS NOT THE "LITTLE DEATH" type of orgasm that the French talk about. I think that this "little death" feeling is due to all the panting type breathing and muscles clenching. After I having this relaxed type of orgasm, I can continue with intercourse and can have a second and even third orgasm, within 5-10 minutes from each other. I have only had the one experience with the 15 second later 2nd orgasm. I am continuing to see if I can refine this practice.
While I have heard of the "breathing" techniques, I've never read much about them. But, hey, if they help ya, more power to 'em. As for the "Little Death" orgasm you speak of, I have no idea what you mean by this. I know the French called orgasm, in general, the "little death." Thanx for your entry.
000075
Wednesday 06/17/1998 10:19:09pm
Brian M.
mccandliss@hotmail.com
USA
The "little death" orgasm, termed by the French "Le Petit Morte," refers to a true orgasm, because of the comparability of a full ejaculatory orgasm to what one medical patient described as "cardiac arrest" when describing the orgasms of his youth. This is also applied to an intense female orgasm, presumably for the same reason. I noticed that women tend to have these further along into sex, while studies indicate that a man's orgasms generally becomes less intense; I have also noticed that these "mini-orgasms" seem to carry their own "mini-refractory periods" as well, requiring more effort to overcome, or to derive pleasure from, until the urge to push to ejaculation becomes too strong to resist.
While it is possible to remain at the peak of arousal for some time, it is necessary to push harder and harder to maintain this.
000076
Sunday 06/21/1998 8:15:51pm
Andy
andy@email.city.cmo
What happens when you put the Energizer bunny's battery in backwards? He just keeps coming, and coming, and coming, and coming...
Sounds like the bunny's got the right idea. Now, if we can just find a way to re-wire all male "bunnies" out there! hehehe
000077
Tuesday 06/30/1998 1:33:25am
Dan
You know, I've always wondered what exactly a woman feels after orgasm?? It's hard to imagine as a male. If women have no refractory period then how exactly would a woman describe being sexually relieved?? I'd love to be a woman for a day. I know what I'd do.
000079
Saturday 07/11/1998 11:32:31am
Private Message 79
000080
Monday 07/13/1998 3:40:50pm
Private Message 80
000081
Monday 07/13/1998 3:54:19pm
Private Message 81
000082
Tuesday 07/14/1998 6:29:24pm
Private Message 82
000083
Thursday 07/16/1998 3:34:09am
Dick
United States
I know that Male Multiple Orgasm (MMO) is real. I'm a 30 year old Heterosexual male. And personally, it has been my experience that each successive MMO ejaculation is "always" more intense (POWERFUL!) and lasts longer (STRONGER) than the previous. On average I achieve between 6-10 complete and separate climaxes and ejaculations within 5-20 minutes. In fact, sometimes I can have 4 complete and separate orgasms in as little as 4-5 minutes. Here, as above, there is no loss of erection. Brent, I don't know the following info is consistent with your "study," but my multiple orgasms are always accompanied by a notable "full-body-sweat" sorta like a "flush." And, although multiple orgasms occur naturally to me (since 1984). On average, I do not continue beyond 6-10 ejaculations on any given love-making session. Why? For obvious reasons, I'm afraid of "injuring" or "damaging" my penile tissue; e.g. "skin burn" (short-term) or "prostrate" (long-term), etc.! But I can always prolong my MMO's for my partner's reciprocal pleasure and often do... By the way, I'm surprised that last issue hasn't surfaced here before.
The bottom line is MMO is real but my penis isn't made of "steel." !
Good for you! Keep on keepin' on!
000084
Wednesday 07/22/1998 12:55:29am
George
Was it really necessary to put an age-question on here? This information is just as applicable to people under 18 as over, since it's a basic part of basic biophysiology and has nothing to do with any kind of expression, prurient or otherwise. Were there complaints? Just curious.
More than anything else, it is meant as a protection to those who might be upset by the website content, and to myself should there be parents, etc., upset that no adult content advisory was offered to those visiting.
000085
Wednesday 07/22/1998 4:12:00pm
Brian M.
I also wonder about the different ways that the sexes experience orgasm, and wonder if MRP has anything to do with the sudden mood-shift that a lot of men feel during orgasm, accompanied by a sudden "change of mind" about sex, which was even parodied on "Seinfeld" as a tendency for men to want to leave (depart, sleep etc) as soon as they are finished. If this is a natural response, as opposed to a learned response, then this might follow from a decreased ability to continue to be be naturally coupled with a decreased desire to do so. This is witnessed in animal behavior, wherein even polygamous male animals tend to show postcoital disinterest with a second female, if they are not capable of performing a second time; although some animals will mate several times in series, this is mainly when they are capable of achieving erection, and otherwise will show no interest in the advances of a female.
This also tends to indicate that any continued desire in male humans might be a learned behavior i.e. a deliberate choice to seek more of a good thing, as opposed to any natural desire.
If this is true, then it may be that neurological changes responsible for mood may also be released and effected in conjunction with those responsible for function.
Does the subject of this study experience any such change?
Yes, of course. As I have discussed at length in previous guestbook responses, I personally feel there is a direct connection between the MRP and the stereotypical "wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am" attitudes of males following their "conquest." Thus, in addition to the sexual benefits, the ultimate eradication of the MRP would — in my humble opinion — give impetus to the at-least-as-desirable "side effect" of having men continue to be interested in their partners both sexually and emotionally. I believe the instant gratification aspects of male sexuality lead men to disavow the heart in satisfying the penis. Were men's sexuality to not be so limited, their emotional involvements would not be so shortlived, as well.
000086
Tuesday 08/18/1998 3:26:19pm
Matthew Totaro
totaromt@ozemail.com.au
Melbourne, Australia
I found the literature on the Web page very interesting reading. One of the many questions I have however, is, what do we know about this so-called "refractory period". The text books tell us that it occurrs, but never attempt to explain what exactly takes place in the male's brain or why nature has engineered the male to become "sexually paralised" immediately after orgasm?
Thank you for your comments. I, too, have been amazed that research has not been conducted on the Male Refractory Period (MRP). The textbooks do indeed describe the refractory period, yet offer no explanation for it. Most likely, they have assumed this to be a universal phenomenon, and cannot be changed, so why investigate. This research will hopefully change such attitudes and spark discussion and research into the causes of it. We are hopeful that someday soon, research will begin in earnest into this phenomenon, comparing men such as our Subject to other "normal" men to determine what it is that is different about them. In this manner, we should be able to determine, or at least better isolate, the cause(s) of MRP, and perhaps discover how to limit or eradicate MRP entirely — even if only temporarily.
000087
Thursday 08/20/1998 1:26:20pm
PML
GAANET@AOL.com
New York
Hi there,
Thought I'd post a shorter, public version of a private message I'd sent earlier — as I'm wondering if you have encountered similar cases.
I am a 34 year old male and I seem to be able to achieve multiple, non-ejaculatory orgasms by stimulating my nipples. This involves no squeezing or "holding back" of any sort. In fact, there does not even need to be contact with my penis.
The orgasms at times feel identical to ejaculatory orgasms. Other times they are much more intense and involve pleasurable tingling sensations throughout the body. I can have several of these in succession. What do you think is going on and have you encountered other cases like this?
No, I've never heard of that before in a male. While I have heard of females who can orgasm through nipple stimulation alone, yours is the first male ability to do this. Congrats, and keep on tweakin'!
000088
Monday 09/14/1998 8:25:34pm
Brian M
mccandliss@hotmail.com
From what I can surmise, MRP is an evolutionary adaptation whose purpose is most likely to regulate male sexual activity in order to maintain sperm counts, so as to maximize efficiency in resources in ensuring pregnancy. This is why man does not have larger testes to simply produce more spermatozoa to increase fertility: they are already the perfect size to do the job, but only if it is done at the proper rate — beyond this, more would not help, but would only place a larger drain on the body. In other words, MRP enables an optimum level of sexual activity to allow a perfect balance between testicular size and the number of copulations required for pregnancy. Such regulation is not required in the female, since there are no sperm counts to be maintained.
Now that such regulation is no longer required by the male, MRP serves no useful function, and can probably therefore be dispensed with with no detrimental effects, save low sperm counts without deliberate abstinence; in other words, removing MRP could double as a contraceptive!
It is unfortunately all too common for anthropologists to place evolutionary significance to any observed behavior. However, as it is purely speculative at best to do so, this is hardly logically conclusive. Were the MRP to be an evolutionary development to somehow diminish the male's capacity for sexual activity, then one would expect that the Bonobo (pygmy chimpanzee) — our closest "relative" (with over 98% identical DNA) — to exhibit this same sexual limitation. And yet, the Bonobo engage in literal orgies with the same male copulating to ejaculation dozens of times per "orgy." However, regardless of the MRP's causes or possible evolutionary purpose, I certainly agree that the MRP serves no useful biological or sociological purpose.
000089
Tuesday 09/15/1998 4:34:33pm
Andy
London, England
I have a theory that the MRP is caused by a muscular nerve pinch — similar to how you can surpress a sneeze by pressing hard below your nose. Has this ever been tested out on people under total muscle relaxants where no musclar action at all takes place?
Once the study is published and funding is solicited for further research, we shall begin an indepth study of the entire physiological-biological system. From there, we hope to arrive at a few hypotheses of our own. However, until such indepth research is begun, all any of us can do is speculate. Thank you for your suggestion.
000090
Saturday 10/03/1998 10:42:36am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
I, too, am surprised at how little research has been done on the neurological/physiological causes of MRP.
My wife (and many other women, too) seems to suffer from FRP (female refractory period). It is exceedingly rare for her to have two in a row (and never more than two). Her clit becomes very sensitive (much like my penis after ejaculation). The sex research literature offers mixed signals on this count: Some authors conclude that women's physiological responses vary (but, again, WHY?) while others contend that all women are potentially insatiable. If the latter is true, then what is WRONG with monorgasmic women? It is equally frustrating for my wife, because she knows that other women are having the time of their life. Perhaps we need research into FRP, as well.
John B.
You make an interesting and thought-provoking observation. It is true that not all women are multiorgasmic, though — as far as we know — their "refractory period" is not physiologically based, as it appears to be with men. Why this is for women, I could only speculate as well. Women's sexual response can vary greatly, as also do their orgasmic responses. Hopefully this too will someday be investigated.
000091
Saturday 10/03/1998 1:01:04pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
PROSTATE ORGASM: Years ago, when my wife and I were still dating, she agreed to insert an anal vibrator in me while I masturbated. I reached the point of climax and the orgasm was the most intense that I ever had — it lasted a full minute. My legs were kicking and I was moaning and screaming. It is the only time in my life that I have ever experienced what I see women experiencing. Alas, my wife has never agreed to do this again (it's not "natural," she says; well, honey, licking your clit isn't "natural" either!). Most women are grossed out by anything having to do with the prostate/anus, which means a real loss of pleasure for men (it is difficult to insert a vibrator with one hand and jerk yourself off with the other).
I'm curious are your orgasms like this — continuing on and on or are they discrete?
Can a man with your abilities ever be satisfied by a single woman? Hell, I'd be jumping the bones of every available woman out there! I suppose if you ever do discover a cure for MRP, then it would have a decided effect (positive or negative?) on family structure.
John B.
P.S.: Frankly, I wonder how many women really care whether or not men experience more pleasure in sex. We are expected to give (though we have a reputation as "takers") even when we receive far less pleasure from the act than our lovers. The constant "holding back" makes prolonged intercourse a bore (my wife can stay in the high plateau of pleasure, but I must hold far back from the orgasmic line).
I performed a little experiment to see how sexually active women would respond to news of a multiorgasmic male. I created two ads on one of the nation's leading Adult Personal sites (more than 500,000 subscribers): one of a multiorgasmic female ("capable of endless orgasms") and the other of a multiorgasmic male (also "capable of endless orgasms"). They were the same age, lived in the same city, etc. In the first three weeks of this experiment, the woman received 2,000 "hits" including some from as far away as Sweden and Russia! The male ad received zero "hits" (yup, not a single one!). I finally pulled the female ad because my mail box was overloaded. The male ad has run for two months and still no "hits"!
Conclusion: If scientists ever do overcome the orgasmic gender gap, then they will have to work on the gender gap in desire. Otherwise, you will have many frustrated multiorgasmic men.
Thank you for your entry, and I shall try to respond to each of your inquiries.
According to our Research Subject, his orgasms are not "discrete" at all. The strength of the orgasmic contractions are completely uninhibited, resulting in full ejaculatory contractions with each. Obviously, after several orgasms, the amount of semen ejaculated diminishes to just a few drops thereafter. However, still the subsequent orgasms and the ejaculatory contractions are every bit as intense and full as before — usually more so. He does not "hold back" at all, not during the first orgasm/ejaculation nor any thereafter. He simply does not lose his erection or his desire and ability to continue on to as many as he desires. As for your question regarding being able to be satisfied with a single woman, this is a very good question. According to the Subject, he is very emotionally motivated in addition to the very normal male attribute of being visually stimulated. This ability is a "double-edged sword" of sorts and he does the best he can to both be who he is, and also conform to societal norms regarding the "family structure" you mention. He also has no answers in that regard, either, except to say that he recognizes there are other considerations besides his own desires, of course. But, as there are no others like himself, he is still trying to find the "rules" or "standards" that work best for him. As for your observations regarding women's attitudes of their male partners' pleasure, he additionally admits to having the same feelings at times. He has found that for many women, this ability causes them to feel that their own sexuality is being "threatened" or "challenged" in some way. However, for those women who are truly multiorgasmic, the response has been quite positive. I, too, believe that men should be freed from having to "hold back" so as to prolong intercourse. The words you used in relating this thought are almost identical to those I myself have used, as well, in attempting to describe this experience.
Finally, while your experiment was a most interesting one, indeed, the conclusion reached was at best (no pun intended) premature. This experiment did not take into account the great disparity that exists between what attracts and arouses men, and what arouses and attracts women. Were women aroused or motivated by sex ads, the adult clubs and bookstores would be inundated with female patrons groping men at every opportunity, Playgirl's circulation would match that of Playboy, and men wouldn't have to pay for sex, as women would be just as interested in "gettin' it on" with them as they are. Women are more motivated emotionally than are men. Ads do not generally appeal to most women, something that these personals pages and websites can attest to unanimously. In such "adult personals," even the owners recognize that women do not respond to such ads in overwhelming numbers as do men, and for those women that do, it is more likely that they will be attracted by just about anything in the ad except the sexually graphic. In addition, they might understandably interpret such a male "advertiser" as being either a liar or a braggart. After all, men aren't SUPPOSED to be able to be truly multiorgasmic. Thus, any man claiming this will probably be viewed as a liar from the start. After all, the research Subject certainly was not trying to find women to have sex with, yet it took him over ten years just to find a research team willing to believe him. And all he wanted was to demonstrate this so as to have it documented as being real. He wasn't trying to convince anyone to have sex with him, to my understanding. Yet, even given this, no one would listen to what he had to say. Given this, small wonder that what few women might have responded, didn't given the obvious "liar" this "multiorgasmic male" must have been in their eyes.
000092
Sunday 10/04/1998 10:28:28am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Thanks for your extended response!
Let me restate one of my questions. By "discrete" orgasms, I did not mean that the guy in your study had to "hold back" in any way (obviously, he doesn't). Some multiorgasmic women have several orgasms in one session, but they are discrete in the sense that they do not follow one after another. Others have "continuous" orgasms that blend together — say, 15 or 20 orgasms in a matter of a few minutes. The study reported that he had 6 orgasms in 36 minutes, which suggests that on that occasion he had discrete multiple orgasms (i.e., it wouldn't take 36 minutes if you had one right after another separated only by a few seconds).
Have you experimented with prostate stimulation? What kind of a response do you get? I did this twice with a vibrator and the orgasm lasted a full minute. It was only a single orgasm (ejaculation brought the fun to an end) but a very intense, very long one at that.
John B.
P.S.: Your point concerning the character of Adult Personals is well taken. However, I have read extensively in the sex research literature and there is a strong consensus that there is a gender difference in desire (as measured by frequency of thought co/sex and desire for many partners, etc.). When such a difference manifests itself across cultures, then there is probably a physiological basis for it. I would wish that it were not so, but don't expect any sea change in attitude. Actually, women have the best of all possible worlds — the sex is potentially great when they have it, but when they are preoccupied with other matters, they could care less about sex. (I know one woman who is multiorgasmic but who can go a whole month without it. I simply cannot imagine doing without for such a long period of time.
P.P.S.: Again, I am intrigued by the statement of faith that there is no physiological basis for FRP. It obviously feels like a physical reaction (i.e., clitoral sensitivity) to these women. True, you cannot see the refractory period (as you can with a detumescent penis) but the apparent reaction is the same. The implication is that mono-orgasmia is "all in her head." Well, I know many highly intelligent, sexually active women who suffer from this "problem." Unfortunately, they feel like second-class citizens, because they know that men prefer women who can put on a real show (no wonder they fake it!)
Ah! Now I understand better where you are going with this. The Subject states that he seldom has what you call "continuous" orgasms, in that within seconds of one, he has another. And yet, he adds that this does occur when his arousal is exceptionally high (oral sex from a particularly enthusiastic partner is one near sure-fire way). What usually occurs is that following ejaculation, he retains his erection, and within minutes of the first, he has another, and so on...
He states that he has never experimented much with prostate stimulation, except to the extent that he knows that for him, personally, it does not result in added stimulation. That it works so well for you is wonderful, and I hope your wife comes to understand that it is not "abnormal" but rather quite common in men, and does not mean that such men have any homosexual tendencies (should this be her unspoken feeling).
I certainly agree with you that arousal motivators differs between the sexes. However, once aroused, women can be every bit as ardent in lovemaking as men. Men's arousal is much more dependent on visual stimulation than is that of the female. Thus, understandably, women are not aroused as frequently or as suddenly as are men. A man can watch a woman walk along a street, and if she appeals to him, he can instantly find himself fantasizing. However, just because a woman's "buttons" cannot be quite so easily pushed does not diminish her capacity for arousal, as I'm sure you know. Your observation regarding a woman's ability to set sex at a lower priority than other matters is certainly an accurate one in my view.
Finally, I reiterate that it is my opinion only that your term, Female Refractory Period (FRP), is not physiologically based. Unlike men, women can apparently "re-discover" their sexuality throughout their lives. I personally know of MANY women who only in their 30's or 40's "learn" to be orgasmic, or even multiorgasmic. This was not through any "physiological" change, nor even through the employment of some exotic "technique(s)", but rather through the discovery (sometimes because of a new relationship or by releasing some psychological block) of the true extent and depth of their sensuality and sexual capacity. However, never in history has a man "learned" — as have countless women — to experience natural, full orgasm (with ejaculation, of course) and avoid the physiologically imposed male refractory period. Thus, logically to my mind, women — as Masters and Johnson, and other researchers have also determined — have no inherent limitations on their sexual capacity, as do men. Thus, as male "mono-orgasmia" is universal, and always has been (the case of our Subject the still-only-known exception), there is a very real probability of some physiological cause which can be discovered and perhaps eradicated. Women, on the other hand, can be found in abundance who are both "mono-orgasmic" and multiorgasmic. Again, strong evidence that their capacities are much more subjectively, rather than physiologically, determined. But, again, I could still be wrong, of course.
Thank you again for your thought-provoking entry.
000093
Sunday 10/04/1998 2:17:22pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
1. Since the ultimate goal of this research is to discover a way to overcome MRP (perhaps through drugs and/or surgery), I wonder if the researchers are going to take images of your subject's orgasms. The following reference can be found in "Surgery, Drugs, and the Male Orgasm," BMJ (British Medical Journal), Feb. 1997: 319-20. "Gil-Vernet and colleagues used transrectal ultrasound . . . to generate the first dynamic images of the events occurring in the genitourinary tract during ejaculation. . . ." (This study appeared in British Journal of Urology)
2. Also, perhaps he has an unusually high level of oxytocin?
3. You may be right about FRP, but most multiorgasmic women also reach a terminative orgasm, which may be triggered by uterine contractions. I'm curious: Does your guy ever reach a terminative orgasm? (I.e., after 10 or so, do he runs out of steam, or could he literally go forever?).
4. Is this an inherited condition? (Did his father have it?)
1. This is a most intriguing idea! I had no idea that such a procedure was possible, much less had already been conducted! I thank you for this most promising suggestion.
2. The oxytocin level is indeed one of the areas we will be researching as soon as funding becomes available. Given past experiments which have reported an apparent relationship between oxytocin levels and the refractory period, this is certainly an important avenue to consider.
3. According to the Subject, he has never reached a "terminative" orgasm, beyond which he could not continue.
4. As I believe the capacity he possesses is physiological in nature, it would stand to reason that it would also be genetic in origin, and thus, inheritable. However, I have confirmed that his father and brothers do not possess this capacity. However, it is possible that this natural capacity might skip a generation or two, as do many genetic traits. Unfortunately, both his grandfathers have passed away. However, he has not asked any of his uncles. So, who knows!
Thank you again for a most intriguing entry!
000094
Monday 10/05/1998 7:45:02am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
The complete citation for the ultrasound study is: Gil-Vernet JM, Jr.; Alvarez-Vijande R., Gil-Vernet A, Gil-Vernet JM, "Ejaculation in Men: A Dynamic Endorectal ultrasonographical study," British Journal of Urology 73 (1993): 442-48. You might try contacting them via e-mail. I am sure that they would be very interested in your sexual response cycle.
The thing that has always fascinated me about female sexuality is their ability to take pleasure beyond multiple orgasms to full-body tantric orgasms that last up to 30 minutes or longer (constant orgasm the whole time). I have corresponded with practitioners of tantra who say that the women sometimes faint from the sheer bliss of these continuous orgasms. Has the subject you studied ever tried to achieve this state?
Which raises the question: Why are most multiples discrete? Why is there any reduction in pleasure between the peaks?
I've seen videos of women on the Sybian machine (an artificial vibrating/gyrating penis that women ride) who have continuous orgasms for 15-20 minutes or more. It would seem that this would be even more enjoyable than a half-dozen discrete orgasms. Perhaps it has something to do with the G-spot stimulation? (Some researchers argue that the G-spot is the female analogue to the male prostate, which might explain why I can have a continuous orgasm with prostate stimulation, but not penile stimulation).
Thank you very much for going to the trouble of including the entire citation! Once research is renewed, I assure you we will investigate this possibility.
Regarding Tantra, let me say this. While I generally feel any investigation of sexual potentials is positive, one must be careful what one chooses to believe. I have found that where orgasm is concerned, most of the incredible claims made (e.g., Extended Sexual Orgasm (E.S.O.), Tantric Sex, and of course, male multiple orgasm) are made possible only after fudging the definition of terms. Simply put, you can claim you have a flying elephant so long as you can fudge the definition of "flying" to include loading the poor animal onto a cargo plane and getting it off the runway. So also with the definition of "orgasm." With male multiple orgasm, the definition of orgasm is altered to include the unnatural process of stopping ejaculation, thus keeping the orgasm from fully occurring. In this manner, males can claim to be multiorgasmic (present company excepted, of course). In Tantra, another re-defining of orgasm is made necessary before its fantastic claims can likewise be made. Here, for its claims to "extended orgasm" to work, you must expand your definition of orgasm to include the concept of the "psychic orgasm."
If you choose to investigate further, you will find that the "full-body tantric orgasms" you speak of are nothing more than "heightened states of arousal" which the practitioners of Tantra call "psychic orgasms." These are not actual orgasms at all, as any true scientific study of them would quickly prove, but are instead individuals who through meditation coupled with sexual stimulation claim to enter a "state" of heightened arousal and sexual awareness. Basically, they maintain arousal in the "plateau" phase of the Masters & Johnson "Sexual Response Cycle." Small wonder that in such a state, they can maintain these "orgasms" for a half hour or longer.
As for the Sybian machine, of which I am also well aware, while it is true that many women have found greater satisfaction with it, not all women do, of course. And for those women who find it greatly enhances their sexual pleasure, you will find their orgasmic patterns enhanced as well, but I still doubt it will be to the degree depicted in the videos you viewed. After all, John, how objective and accurate do you truly feel such porn and/or "infomercial" videos to be?
And finally, just as women vary in what they find sexually pleasurable, so also do men. If prostate stimulation works for you, and enhances your pleasure, go for it, dude! However, I do not at this time see any direct correlation between G-Spot/prostate stimulation and discrete multiple orgasms. Do discrete and continuous multiple orgasms occur? Yes! Are most multiple orgasms "discrete" (some small period of time between each, yet without any loss in tumescence, arousal, or sexual capacity to continue sexual activity)? Yes, again. A much smaller percent could be considered "continuous." Are multiple orgasms (discrete or otherwise) somehow dependent upon or caused by Tantra and/or the Sybian machine? In my opinion, no — no correlation whatsoever.
000095
Thursday 10/08/1998 6:38:34pm
Jos. P. Bilarczyk
peter@jersey-distributors.com
http://www.jersey-distributors.com/
New Jersey
When the multi formula comes out for men I would like to know about it........I am 62 and don't have long to wait so put me on the top of the list. Thanks Peter
At present, we have no current research being conducted; we have no funding for this at present. Once the study is published in the Journal of Sex Education and Therapy (next issue), we are hopeful that we shall be able to successfully solicit the funding necessary to continue this research. Should this research prove successful in isolating and eradicating (if only temporarily) the cause(s) of the male refractory period (MRP), the entire world will certainly hear of it, I assure you.
000096
Friday 10/09/1998 6:45:13am
Private Message 96
000097
Saturday 10/10/1998 11:58:31pm
Brian M
mccandliss@hotmail.com
Doesn't the field of reproductive physiology give any insight as to the cause of MRP?
Not that I am aware of. To my knowledge, no specific investigation of the male refractory period and its cause(s) has ever been conducted. We hope to change this soon.
000098
Wednesday 10/14/1998 7:07:46am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
This is interesting. So, you are saying that women cannot achieve continuous orgasms that last longer than, say, a minute or so? One of the frustrating things about sex research is that the data is rarely published in journals (I have read Archives of Sexual Behaviour, etc. and only a scattering of studies contain actual data — blood pressure, amplitude of contractions, etc.). As I understand it, Masters and Johnson never released the mass of data they collected in the '60s and some other researchers have contended that their research was flawed. M & J spoke of "status orgasmus", which I think they defined as orgasms that lasted a minute or more. What is the longest continuous orgasm ever recorded? The Brauers describe E.S.O. as a different kind of physical orgasm (with real, automatic contractions) that proceeds without effort on the woman's part.
I corresponded with one leading sex researcher concerning the objective data and she stated that objective data do not necessarily correlate with subjective satisfaction. For example, the objective data on amplitude (intensity) of contractions shows that men achieve an orgasmic amplitude roughly two times as high as women, but who would contend that men really enjoy sex more? Can you imagine a man screaming out in ecstacy? The stereotype (which probably reflects actual experience for most of us) is of a man who shudders, utters a barely audible groan, then falls asleep. But, if objective data are (at least, in some respects) meaningless then where does that leave us? Subjectively, women seem to enjoy their tantric orgasms much more than their "normal" ones. Or, perhaps this is not true? Has anyone surveyed tantra practitioners? There are so many questions that need asking, yet the literature is silent on most of them.
I never said I did not believe female continuous orgasms could last for "a minute or so." I said that I find it difficult to believe such an orgasmic state could be maintained for "30 minutes" or more. As for sex research, almost all legit studies ARE published in professional journals. I would suspect any study that is not. As for Tantra and E.S.O., I can only go by what I have read, and by the lack of scientific studies documenting the claims. As for your comment on Brauer (E.S.O.), you stated that he, himself, described them as a "different kind of physical orgasm." Thus, something "different" is going on, and I would have to see the relevant, scientific data from such observations before I would be willing to consider and/or accept same as actual physical orgasms. However, according to my own investigation, such orgasms are not, in fact, actual physical orgasm. However, I could still be wrong. Again, show me da study! :)
As for the remainder of this reply, all I can say is that there are different strokes for different folks, and that men and women respond very differently to orgasm, experiencing and expressing the same differently as well. Thus, only the objectiveness of scientific study can give us the empirical, quantifiable data needed to discover and discern what is truly happening on a physiological level. And for me, that is my focus. After all, if this is not considered the true test, then we might as well accept as legit and real any claims, as well as the moans, sighs, and cries of all those porn starlets vamping for the camera that can be seen in all the hokiest pornos ever made, and judge our own sexual capacity, and that of our sexual partners, based on such unfair comparisons and unreal expectations.
000099
Thursday 10/15/1998 5:10:49am
Teresa
Michigan
Just a little FYI... happened across a magazine, "American Woman" 12/98 that has a glaring cover declaring "you" can help your man achieve multiple orgasms! Scanning the article confirmed what I already knew... they were referring to the many techniques I have seen discussed here. Basically stopping ejaculation and then proceeding, calling that multiple orgasms. Doing that seems as if it would hurt and certainly diminish the true orgasm. Being a multiple orgasmic woman, if I had to attempt to stop, hold back, then proceed, first, I don't think I could. Second, I know I would not like it. Being MO, once I'm there... the pleasure journey just continues! It's refreshing to know there is truly legitimate research occurring on the MRP, based on one known man with the ability to experience multiple orgasms! I continue to follow this site with interest! Thanks for sharing this intriguing information and keeping us updated!
How welcome are your remarks, Teresa. True multiorgasmics understand and appreciate fully what this website is about, and the enormous difference that exists between having an orgasm ... and the incomparable pleasure and experience in having one after another, the endorphins building with each until a natural high is achieved as the pleasure continues to rise ever higher, the experience itself becoming sweeter, the euphoria building upon itself — hour after hour, as the emotions, the senses, and the sexuality merge in a communion unlike any other! Men (and mono-orgasmic women) truly do not realize what they are missing in not being able to enjoy sex to its true potential. It is like trying to describe color to one without sight, or music to one who has never heard it, or perhaps more accurately — describing what it's like to fly, diving into the clouds, skimming the ground, circling mountainous peaks, thrilling to the freedom of the skies, to someone who has only experienced height from the top of a ladder. Thank you so much for your wonderful entry, Teresa.
000100
Thursday 10/15/1998 7:40:43am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
It is highly doubtful that anyone will come up with a "cure" for MRP for many generations, partly because those with the resources (pharmaceutical companies) have no incentive to do so. Would the FDA approve a drug that eliminated MRP when it is not a "disease"? My guess is that if we ever do overcome MRP it will be due to happenchance (like Viagra, which began as a blood pressure drug).
So, in the meantime, perhaps we should consider ways to lower the male sex drive so that we are not constantly frustrated (and disappointed) with the outcome. I've read of men suffering from prostate cancer who have taken testosterone reducing drugs say that they never realized the stress caused by constant sexual tension. Life had become much more peaceful and relaxing for them. There would be some loss of sexual pleasure, but the tradeoff might be worth it, especially since sex has become work for men and we get so little out of it.
Viagra was funded, created, distributed, and marketed by Pfizer AFTER it was determined what its true use would be. The FDA approved Viagra as the sexual enhancer that it is, and not for help with high blood pressure or any other medical condition. Why? Simple! Profit. The motivation is profit and always will be. Sex sells and thus, Viagra sells quite well throughout the world, despite its relatively high price tag (around $10 per pill) and despite the dangers associated with it (to date, over 70 men have lost their lives to it). And yet, Pfizer continues to rake in the money and, I'm sure, is thanking their lucky stars that they were able to sponsor such an incredibly popular and profitable pill. Frankly, I am both heartened and thrilled by Viagra's success. After all, whether future research results in a cure for MRP, or merely a medication which only temporarily relieves its effects, the world will clamor for it as never they have for Viagra.
As for your research suggestion into diminishing the male sex drive so as to reduce the "stress" men feel, let me say this: stress is what motivates mankind. No great endeavor, achievement, or invention was created without stress. We, as a species, need adversity to achieve, grow, and be happy. Ironic reality of Life that it is, it is also undeniably true. A society of lobotomized zombies might not feel any stress, however I doubt any of us would want them for neighbors. I'll gladly hang on to my stress, for it has helped me to realize my aspirations, and continues to each day.
000101
Thursday 10/15/1998 12:27:14am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Some forms of stress ARE useful and beneficial. Stress can help us overcome obstacles in life and achieve success in school and in our careers. But, it is hard to see the benefit of male sexual frustration — an INEVITABLE consequence of our physiology. This obstacle cannot be overcome (you are the one-in-a-billion exception). How does this sexual frustration improve our lives? The only theory I have heard to explain the beneficial nature of the male sex drive is that we subliminate our desire into our work. But could the same be true for women? Do they "need" sexual frustration (stress)? It is not clear to me that the benefits of monorgasmic sex outweigh the constant frustrations (I work on a college campus with 10,000 young coeds, so you can imagine the frustration!).
On Viagra: Yes, Pfizer funded the project after it discovered (accidentally) that this drug could help with impotency. But the point is that a) they did not seek such a cure at the outset and b) FDA approved the drug as treatment for a medically-certified condition. Needless to say, the diagnostic manual for physicians does not list MRP as a medical ailment. Perhaps surgical intervention is more realistic (presumably, the researchers could experiment on other mammals first). At any rate, I'm not holding my breath for a cure in my lifetime.
To my mind, stress is part of life, period. That we need to learn to both control stress and use it positively is part of life — sexual frustration, included. Our Subject has often described the perpetual degree of sexual frustration he endures constantly! As he has so often described, this capacity is a double-edged sword, of sorts. Normal male physiology contains a built-in control factor: the MRP, a factor he does not possess. Thus, he is almost constantly sexually frustrated. It is something he has come to live with. Thus, again, stress is with us all; only its causes and catalysts change with the individual.
Re: Viagra. Yes, Pfizer funded the project before its true nature was discovered. However, it certainly did not stop its funding as a result, nor did the FDA refuse testing on that basis. That is my point.
I can certainly understand your frustration at being on campus with 10,000 young coeds! *SIGH* hehehe Oh well, we all have our crosses to bear.
000102
Thursday 10/15/1998 1:06:59pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
I discovered that the authors of the ultrasound study are sex researchers in Barcelona, Spain.
Jose Ricardo, Alvarez-Vijande is listed as a member of Grups de Recerca Condolidats. Their fax: 403.52.60 and general e-mail (oliva@medicina.ub.es) See http://www.ub.es/ogrc/GCGENEHUMA.html
Professor Gil-Vernet is at Centro de urologia andrologia sexologia. See http://www.atlas-iap.es/cuasba/simmposi4.htm
I cannot thank you enough for this important and crucial information! Assuming this might be possible for you, would you be able to find the study, scan it, and send it to my email? If so, please attach and send via: mmor_research@hotmail.com
Obviously, if you can't I'll be MORE than happy to write them myself, or search for the study at the local university. Thank you so much for this info !!!
000103
Thursday 10/15/1998 4:55:03pm
Teresa
Michigan
What interesting discussions I continue to find here! In regards to entry #100 and the whole frustration/stress/orgasm issue, I am going to go out on a limb here. It sounds like what I will call the difference between men and women. The reply I received on entry #99 sums it up beautifully. Multiple orgasms are just like flying freely, experiencing the skies with no boundries. Also touched upon the communion of emotions, senses, sexuality, and I'll add sensuality. The lack of this communion in the vast majority of sexual relationships is what often leads to frustration (someone's in my opinion)! Perhaps because your Subject has the ability to experience multiple orgasms, he is far more intuned with the deeper aspects. As I have shared in an earlier, private reply, as an MO woman, I would trade that ability (MO) for a true communion of spirits with a partner. However, experiences thus far has taught without one, you cannot have the other. Hence, my own frustration. Maybe most men are to hung up on performance and missing the deeper aspects mentioned. ???? While I think the research being done on the MRP is vital, I also wonder about the ramifications should a way to eliminate the MRP be discovered and replicated. What a "test" it could be for many men suddenly released from a frustrating boundry they have endured! That is why I applaud the one true MO man and his efforts to maintain integrity and professional research/support. Thanks for the opportunity to share thoughts!
Thank you for your thought-provoking remarks. Your reply is as intriguing and insightful as it is intelligent. Especially your remark that you would be willing to trade your multiorgasmic ability "for a true communion of spirits" with someone. I hope John B. reads this. It just might restore a bit of his hope, or at least help him re-think his attitude towards himself and women.
000104
Thursday 10/15/1998 6:21:32pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Regarding your reply concerning the multiorgasmic capacity, I think you are right, but this "knowledge" of our pathetic male sexuality is deeply depressing. I have read feminist literature on sex and they constantly harp on our inadequacies (see, e.g., Naomi Wolf, Promiscuities). In fact, our limited orgasmic abilities are only the beginning. There are many other disadvantages to being male:
1. Aging/circumcision: Not only are we capable of only one ejaculation, but our ejaculations are far less intense by the time we reach our thirties. I can remember as a teenager jerking off and having my ejaculate spew several feet, but now it just dribbles out. My guess is that my ejaculations have about 10-20% of the force that they had when I was 18. So, in fact, we only have about .10 orgasms!! I should add that I am in perfect health (work out every day) and that my age-related decline is not unusual. Circumcision further desensitives our organs.
2. Limited access: Women are still the "gatekeepers" of sex — they decide when and with whom they will have sex.
3. Limited variety: I read a survey that reported 1/3 of men desired 1,000+ women/year (the comparable figure for women was < 1%). My wife can't believe this figure, but it is an underestimation for those of us surrounded by young, beautiful women (1,000/year = less than 3/day). Yet, we are confined by monogamy. We may lust after many, but we are stuck with one lover unless we break society's rules (and are willing to pay the costs).
4. Restrained sex: Theresa is right — for men there is no "wild sex." Women always ask us, "why can't you 'let go'?" Well, baby, if we "let go," then we are gone! We know that we are judged by our ability to last all night, even if it brings us little pleasure. We are no better than sexual slaves to women. We beg and plead for sex, yet women act as if they are doing us a favor even though they reap far more pleasure from the act!
Aren't these reasons good enough to wish for the death of sexual desire? The alternative is hatred of our own bodies. For the rest our lives, we have to live with the knowledge that we are trapped in a body that will never let us "fly."
Wow! That's quite the downer you've placed on male sexuality! While I think most men would disagree with this extremely pessimistic view, some of your views do mirror those of many men I've spoken with — albeit they were not so despairing in their views. And while you are correct that age plays a definite factor in sexual performance, I can assure you that any woman who cares about you is not interested in measuring how far you ejaculate, nor whether or not you can go (er, cum) all night! Men are much more obsessed with this than are women. After all, neither your pleasure nor hers is at all dependent on how far you ejaculate. Your listing as a "disadvantage" the fact that women "decide when and with whom they will have sex" I find even more disturbing. Although you hopefully did not intend for this to come across as it does, you seem to be bemoaning the fact that women have the right to choose with whom they will have sex. I hope this is not your true feeling! After all, were this not so, women would be sexual slaves to men. And, given that you feel, though erroneously, that men are sexual slaves to women, I would think you would not want the reverse, either. We should be partners in sex, not competitors or enemies. Perhaps if you viewed the sexes more in this light, you would not feel quite so beleaguered and hostile. Your remarks regarding how much men "beg and plead" for sex belie your attitude that women should put out for no other reason than the man desires to make use of their vaginas. This, in my opinion, is one of the greatest offenses men perpetrate on women in relegating their worth to the degree they are willing to permit men sexual access to their orifices. Such an attitude does little to endear such men to the women they desire, obviously. Were men to think on this more, I'm sure men would find their relationships, including the sexual, so much more fulfilling as their women began to feel themselves valued for ALL they are, rather than merely the possessors of a physical shell that men want, and resent them for not giving them on demand. Frankly, were men with such attitudes in possession of multiorgasmic capacity, I shudder to imagine what they might be capable of.
000105
Friday 10/16/1998 9:33:37am
Teresa
Michigan
WOW is right! John B.'s statements sadden me! The point I made earlier must have been missed. In regards to being trapped and never being able to fly and the comments about lusting... that is what I meant about the differences between men and women. I believe that, when in true communion with a partner, there are only limits you choose to set. There are so many, many ways to communicate on a sensual and sexual basis. That is what many men do not "get" (my opinion). Consider something my mother used to say..."men use love to get sex and women use sex to get love"... both wanting something more and because we have beautiful differences, we still struggle to communicate or understand those needs of the other. As for being stuck in monogamy and lusting after 1.000 women daily, alas another difference. I don't think women see themselves as gatekeepers and "give out" when they want, but desire those deeper feelings, deeper understanding and deeper emotional connections hoping it exists in the monogamous relationship they enter. Even when there is unhappiness, I think most women continue to seek love and acceptance verses lusting for sexual gratification. This is such tantalizing conversation. I enjoy the ability to openly discuss these things, in a non-threatening atmosphere, with you and other guests.
000106
Friday 10/16/1998 12:58:17am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Well, my comments were certainly misunderstood! Theresa wrote: "I would trade that ability (MO) for a true communion of spirits with a partner. However, experiences thus far has taught without one, you cannot have the other." I took this to mean that she could not really enjoy a communion of spirits unless her man were truly MO.
ALSO, I certainly did NOT mean that I thought it was a bad thing that women can decide when and with whom they have sex! What is frustrating is the apparent inequality in demand for sex (a man is much more likely to say "yes" than is a woman). This places women in the superior position and causes constant frustration among men. Of course, as Theresa correctly notes, women face their own frustration with men because they want sex and love/affection, and it is easier for men to do without the affection part.
Finally, one reason men are so "performance" oriented is that women reveal so much about our performance to their friends. I am constantly amazed at what I overhear women say about their partners. The poor guys might as well be copulating on stage! I don't know if I have ever heard a man reveal anything specific about how women perform in bed (the myth of men's "locker-room" language is just that, a myth. I've worked out in gyms for 20 years and never heard such language).
Finally, this web site contributes to our performance anxiety. The page opens with quotes that demean male sexuality. The message is: "you guys suck" at sex.
000107
Friday 10/16/1998 2:21:58pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Let me second Theresa's comments about this discussion site — it is a real pleasure to discuss these things with people who care about male-female relations.
I forgot to add a thought — the guestbook moderator responded: "While you are correct that age plays a definite factor in sexual performance, I can assure you that any woman who cares about you is not interested in measuring how far you ejaculate, nor whether or not you can go (er, cum) all night! Men are much more obsessed with this than are women." Here, again, male sexual performance is judged by whether or not it pleases a woman. My point was that our own pleasure diminishes greatly by the time we reach age 30. Women can accept that fact (actually, they may appreciate the slower trigger of older men) but the fact remains that our sexual pleasure is in a fast state of decline after the teen years. Judging by our peak years, we have only a small fraction of an ejaculatory orgasm. A bad situation just keeps getting worse. Women, on the other hand, keep getting better as they age....
It is true that most men are not as pessimistic as I am, partly because men hardly ever think about these issues. We all know that women are sexually superior, but most men never reflect long on our own limitations, which is probably a good thing.
000108
Friday 10/16/1998 2:38:26pm
Teresa
Michigan
I'd like to stop a second and clarify a few things. What I meant with the comment you quoted was, I have not truely found a true communion of spirits with a partner thus far. I think a large part of it has been what society has taught non-MO men... to be concerned about performance. So, they cannot let go of those issues and truely bond. Granted this is my opinion based solely on my partners. As far as willingness to say "YES" to sex, not a problem here. But in this day and time, most certainly done with extreme caution! I know there are many women who do run their mouths, I've heard them too. In all fairness, do not stereotype, for that is not my style. Lets be realistic. Maybe men don't talk about a woman's performance but the age old labels of either being a tease or a slut tell all. Why do men and women continue to beat each other up? Perhaps due to the frustration of dealing with how we differ. Lastly, I have to disagree with your comment about this site demeaning male sexuality. I think the host is opening to the world, the discovery of his MO ability, the research associated with it, in hopes of learning more and considerating what further discovery could lead to. If it should prove that he is truely the only MO man and there is no way of replicating it for other men, then he continues to live with it in our prudent society and maybe other men would have to take a look at other emotional aspects their relationships. If a way of giving this ability to others is discovered, then I fear how some men would handle it. Would women become a simple object for gratification again? Sex their duty? HA! I don't think men "suck at sex"... if anything they suck at being able to connect emotionally and spiritually. I apologize if my comments seem to stereotype men...it is not my intention. Thanks.
Thank you, Teresa. I couldn't have attempted to say it better myself. I applaud both your mature sensuality and great emotional discernment. Both are matched only by your eloquence in expressing these highly matured views. Thank you for participating with us; we don't receive too many female respondents here, thus to be graced with a female view from such an intelligent individual is very highly regarded.
Of course, I say this only because so far you have been so very complimentary of this site and forum. ;)
000109
Saturday 10/17/1998 1:49:57pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
I was reading some your older posts and came across number 43 (from "Thom") discussing how he lets the semen flow continuously during his nonejaculatory orgasms. This is precisely what I do. During the first two or three nonejac orgasms I stop stimulation at the very last second and let the semen flow out. (I don't use any clench techniques, I simply let go at the final second, after 5-6 seconds of emission phase orgasm). The orgasms become steadily stronger as my prostate clenches harder to squeeze the last few drops out (thus, subjectively they feel stronger than a single-shot ejaculatory orgasm). This is not, of course, a true natural multiorgasm, but I wondered why you took issue with the issue of semen flow? This has been my experience for nearly ten years now. Certainly, you don't mean to equate ejaculation (defined as full series of penile contractions) with semen output? ....ALSO, one or two of your respondents claimed to have the same multiejaculatory ability as yourself — are there any plans to use them as test subjects as well?
Good observations! I know exactly of what you speak, John. I have experienced these as well. And while there are those who love to rewrite definitions, making outrageous claims so's to sell books/articles/"programs"/tapes/etc., these are not true orgasms, as you yourself recognize. What you talk about I call "playin' on the edge" or "ticklin' the tiger". You see how close to the edge you can get, then enjoy some nice contractions as you ease back into the "Plateau" phase of the Sexual Response Cycle (Masters & Johnson). It's fun and is a nice way to "tease" yourself, and can result in a more powerful orgasm when you do let loose, but these are NOT orgasms, and do not produce true ejaculations. You're right, however, that they can be performed with little conscious "effort" or "technique" ... however the semen emission as described proves that these are not actual ejaculations, at all. You are correct; this is NOT true or natural multiorgasm, and I would never insult your intelligence by attempting to convince anyone that it is. The capacity documented at Rutgers refers to full orgasm with full, natural ejaculation (several strong, full ejaculatory contractions with each orgasm).
Yes, there have been a couple who would seem to also have this natural capacity, and of course, should funding be received, I intend to document and research as many willing subjects as possible, assuming they are legit, of course. But, of course, it will be a simple task to verify.
000110
Saturday 10/17/1998 1:53:20pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Have the researchers tested your Subject's penile blood flow? I have learned to have full multiple ejaculations by masturbating lying down, then after a full ejaculation, I put my legs together and bear down — not to "hold back" but rather to squeeze so hard that I launch up into another full ejaculation. (It helps to have pictures of many women — the "rooster effect"). I can have repeated ejaculations though my penis grows flaccid and the orgasms grow weaker. This is not a natural series of multiple ejaculations because it requires effort on my part (I have been able to do this with my wife IF I am on bottom and she is on top. It seems the only way to squeeze hard enough is if I am lying down).
At any rate, the issue of blood flow came to mind yesterday when I experimented with Viagra. Last week, I took 25mg dose but no effect other than a flush.
Yesterday, I took a 50mg. dose and then had 4 full ejaculations in a ten minute period. The difference this time was that my penis remained fully erect until after the 4th ejaculation, when it grew flacid. Also, the orgasms did not grow weaker but remained roughly similar in intensity.
I am going to try a 75 mg. dose to see what happens then.
Again, I don't believe that I have "eradicated" MRP, but I thought you might want to know this information.
John B, I am not a doctor. Nor do I, or have I ever, claimed to be an expert on Viagra. Of course, one doesn't have to be a doctor to know that common sense would indicate that you should be VERY careful with any kind of medication, including Viagra! Over 70 people have already died from using {or rather, abusing} this medication. Do NOT attempt to prescribe dosages yourself, but only accept and use that which a qualified doctor has prescribed for you! As a disclaimer on my part, know now that I do not support, condone, or encourage any use whatsoever of any drug, medication, supplement, technique, diet regimen, exercise regimen, etc., in anyone's pursuit of either multiple orgasms or any other desire and/or pursuit in life. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, Viagra has never been reported to diminish or eradicate the MRP in ANY way. From what I understand, it facilitates blood flow to the penis ... period. That's it. And that alone does not keep the MRP from triggering. So, again, do NOT experiment with Viagra!!! From all I've read and heard concerning it, such "experimentation" can seriously endanger your health!
On a final note, John B. — so as to discourage such experimentation (which I personally consider to be reckless and foolhardy), I will not allow any further reporting of any perceived results from this dangerous experiment. You have your free-agency to do as you will, but I will not allow this guestbook to become a forum for such experimentation. And, additionally, I would highly recommend you do NOT attempt to use Viagra in any other way than might be prescribed by a legitimate, qualified physician.
000111
Sunday 10/18/1998 8:57:26am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Your warnings are well-taken, though I wonder where this leaves us in our search for an intervention that might eliminate MRP. My guess is that it would take an elective, "recreational" drug to eliminate MRP. Eliminating MRP will do nothing to improve our general health, so the only justification is increased pleasure (recreation). Would the authorities condone trials on humans if there are risks and no health benefits?
Want a direct answer? Here it is: Yes, they most certainly would. After all, Viagra certainly has "risks and no health benefits" and yet trials were both permitted and funded, and the testing approved by the FDA, et al. As for where all this leaves us, we need the MRP research I am attempting to have funded and conducted.
000112
Sunday 10/18/1998 2:46:14pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Impotency is a physical disability and a medically-certified condition. MRP is not.....As for the funding issue, I hope there are some some people out there with deep pockets reading this list! :)
Hmmm, okay, let's consider this example a moment: is a small bust also a "disability"? And yet, breast enhancement procedures are continuously performed, even as new procedures and materials are being funded and investigated. Do not these all have risks? Can it be argued that breast enhancement contributes in any beneficial way to a woman's "general health"? Again, only another of a myriad examples of "enhancement" procedures, drugs, surgery, etc., that are fully funded and supported in society, and with the full approval of the government, despite the growing evidence of both risk and definite detriments to the very "general health" from which the FDA, et al, were created to protect us. And yet, there is nothing in the sexual "enhancement" this research just might discover that would be at all inherently risky. After all, despite Taoist philosophy, multiple ejaculations as a result of multiple orgasm has done nothing detrimental to my health, at all. And yes, I too hope that someone visits this site who sees the potentials in this research and wishes to invest in it, and the future. After all, if Viagra can have such a resounding effect on society, imagine what such a pill/procedure as this would do!
000113
Monday 10/19/1998 11:20:01am
Teresa
Michigan
I appreciate the compliment (entry #108). I find this site/forum and your research intriguing and appreciate the open opportunity to express my personal views while discussing topics. I too applaud you, for the integrity I see in your research as well as the very educational, thought out responses to guests that are void harshness or judgment. For that, I will continue to follow this site and your efforts. It is extremely good to be able to share my "woman's view" here without scrutiny.
000114
Monday 10/19/1998 12:47:24am
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Regarding your comment that my multiple orgasms were not orgasms at all (entry 110). I would agree that they are not complete orgasms, but full emission-phase ones that are very pleasurable. I don't "tickle the tighter" or dance on the edge at all. Rather, I experienced the full "rushing" sensation (that 5-6 intense seconds preceding ejaculation) and then let go at the final second. As I said in my earlier post, repeated orgasms grow stronger, in fact more pleasurable than my normal single-shot ejaculations. This is not to say that they are full ejaculatory orgasms (phases 1 and 2 of orgasm) but they are very pleasurable indeed. Besides, my ejaculations feel like "after shocks" to the most intense part of the orgasm that comes during the 5 seconds preceding ejaculation. So, while I agree that we DO need to eliminate MRP that is not to say that these emission (phase 1) orgasms are not "real." You seem a bit dogmatic on this point. If it feels really good, then why not say so?
Also, while I agree that these nonejacs are "physiologically incomplete," what do you make of the research conducted by Hartman and Fithian, as well as Carmichael, et al. ["Relationships Among Cardiovascular, Muscular, and Oxytocin Responses During Human Sexual Activity," Archives of Sexual Behavior 23, no. 1 (1994): 59-79] that demonstrated similar objective data for both multiorgasmic men and women? (Hartman and Fithian go so far as to say that a third observer could not tell which responses were male or female without the names).
Again, I think the male half of the human race will be liberated from any "holding back" whatsoever once we find a cure for MRP, but don't write off nonejaculatory orgasms all together. Remember, Masters and Johnson posited two phases to orgasm — emission and ejaculation. It is possible to have repeated, intense emission phase orgasms.
Okay John, let's step back a minute and take a nice, deep, cleansing breath.
The reply to your entry with which you seem to take such umbrage was in direct response in agreement to your own words that "During the first two or three nonejac orgasms, I stop stimulation at the very last second and let the semen flow out." This is exactly what I was describing in my "tickling the tiger" comment. You take yourself to the edge of orgasm, experiencing a light orgasmic "rush," followed by the expulsion of some semen, yet — as you, yourself state "certainly, you don't mean to equate ejaculation (defined as full series of penile contractions) with semen output?" So say I to you! Certainly you aren't asking me to now DISAGREE with you on this, are you? Just because there is some expulsion of semen (some "semen output") does not mean that true ejaculation has taken place. That was my point, as also I thought it was yours. I'm not being "dogmatic" at all; I'm being truthful, as also I thought you were in stating it to begin with.
John, you are taking my remarks of sexual physiological realities and assuming I am somehow directing them at you judgmentally, or perhaps against all others. If you have read the guestbook, as you claim, you will see that nothing is further from the truth. I have never dismissed or invalidated the orgasmic experiences of others simply because mine are different! In your own case, if you will recall, though prostate stimulation does nothing for me, personally, I fully validated your preference for them, didn't I? That has always been my attitude, and always will be.
John, here it is in a nutshell — no more, and no less — for some unknown reason, NATURAL ejaculation (in other words, NATURAL orgasm) triggers a refractory period in men (the MRP). In our Subject, it does not nor ever has. Why??? When I have the answer to that question, I will be very satisfied to end my search, and hopefully pass on its benefits to humankind as a whole. Now, if you'd rather not partake in those future "benefits," that's your choice. But don't write me at my guestbook and continually try to dissuade me from my search, and then — now — hypocritically scold me for agreeing with you on points you've made. Given your many entries here, I know that you are torn between your current sexuality and where you wish it could be, and wishing to feel validated in that current sexuality by others, but don't make me a scapegoat for your confusions and frustrations. I am not your enemy, nor am I "dogmatic" simply because I have a vision that is unique.
P.S. As for your Hartman & Fithian observations, remember this: their study was never published in a scientific journal, which requires that stringent scientific methodologies be followed so as to stand up to professional scrutiny and thus be worthy of professional publication. They wrote a book that made them a lot of money, and every few years, out pops another book teaching the same techniques ("How to Make Love All Night" ; "The Multiorgasmic Man" , etc.), yet none of them have ever submitted for publication a true scientific test of their theories and claims. I have undergone the scientific scrutiny they never have, and the study will shortly be published (just received and approved the final publication galleys from JSET that I received over the weekend, btw), and I'm not making a single dime off of it, nor am I preparing a book, or set of tapes, or any other kind of merchandizing. Just something to consider when you read their claims, and those from others like them.
P.P.S. Speaking of the claim you mention: I could instantly tell the enormous differences between our Subject and the Kothari Subject (see this site's "previous studies" page) though the researchers could not at first. Once I showed them the evidence, they were finally convinced that no cognitive techniques of any kind had been used, and the study was rewritten accordingly, as it should have been, and withstood all the professional scrutiny laid upon it by the editors of JSET.
000115
Monday 10/19/1998 4:25:04pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Whoa! I was not "scolding" you; I think your research is great. But I experience more than a "light orgasmic rush" — it really does feel as intense or more so than a single-shot ejaculatory orgasm. But, of course, this is my own experience; I don't know what others feel. Despite all my pessimism about male sexuality (see earlier comments), I thank my lucky stars that I learned these techniques. Keep in mind it will be at least 50-100 years before you (or the researchers) come up with a cure for MRP. But, if they do come up with a cure sooner than that, then perhaps they will give you a Nobel Peace Prize for ending the battle of the sexes! :) .....
You seem to equate orgasm with ejaculation. So you don't accept the two-phase model of Masters and Johnson? Is it possible to enjoy half the orgasmic cycle (phase 1)? Do you experience no intense feelings before ejaculation?....
As for published scientific data, take a look at the Carmichael study. They publish the amplitude, SBP (blood pressure), etc. of monorgasmic and multiorgasmic men and women. Note that there is really no difference between the multiorgasmic nonejac numbers and that of the multiorgasmic women. BUT, the final, ejaculatory orgasm does register stronger numbers (as you allege). So, it is possible that we are both right....
Also, note that the amplitude data on male and female orgasm consistently show that the male orgasm is, by the numbers, twice as intense (I can cite earlier studies as well, if you like). I asked Professor Beverly Whipple about this and she said that the objective data (amplitude) don't necessarily correlate with subjective sensation. Well, O.K., but what does this mean? Sex researchers measure objective data and then state they don't know whether it really measures pleasure!
P.S.: I read an article in Barron's that states Pfizer is working on a variant of Viagra for women that is reputed to be a "multiple orgasm" pill!
Thank you for clarifying your points. :)
As for Masters & Johnson, let me state this regarding the "two-phase" orgasm they reported. It was not their intent to define male orgasm in a new way; they were merely documenting and reporting what they observed. And, in their observations of those males who claimed to be "multiorgasmic," they reported that these males withheld ejaculation (full ejaculation) which enabled them to avoid the MRP. Obviously, as they correctly observed and reported this, I certainly "accept" their observations. However, I do not subscribe to the re-definition of what orgasm naturally is. In fact, I am very opposed to this for obvious reasons. When you redefine a term, you make it susceptible to being manipulated and massaged for whatever purposes might be intended (remember my "flying" elephant example from a previous guestbook reply to you?). Here's an example which, while being admittedly far-fetched, illustrates to the extreme the point I'm making: It has been observed that sneezing holds many biological similarities to orgasm. Imagine how these similarities could be likewise capitalized on should some crafty marketer succeed in redefining orgasm to include, oh…say, "sexual" sneezing. Imagine the "multiorgasmic" books and products that would spring up promoting this twisted interpretation! Now, ANYone who's never been able to have an orgasm (and many women haven't) can now buy this "wonderful" book, buy the "snuff" products that it markets, and become instantly "multiorgasmic"!
Here are the facts. Male orgasm, if experienced as the body naturally intends, includes the highly pleasurable ejaculatory contractions. Female orgasm also includes very similar contractions. And, as Teresa and other MO women will surely tell you, the prospect of voluntarily interrupting these pleasurable contractions by STOPPING them is NOT desirable, at all. MO women would never try to convince their sisters that in doing so, their pleasure is increased. And if they were to try, they'd be laughed out of town! And yet, since men don't know any better (yet!) they are willing to buy into the notion that these techniques WILL enhance pleasure.
While I am most happy to "accept" the fact that such techniques do increase a man's sexual options — albeit at a forfeiture of pleasure and intensity — they still interfere with the body's natural orgasmic cycle, and therefore do not permit the body to freely flow as it should through orgasm. It's a trade-off in my opinion, despite what all the books state, however for now, it's still an important option for men until research might find a better and more natural and pleasurable solution to the MRP dilemma, one that will bring the male sexual response cycle in much more harmonious alignment with that of the female.
000116
Monday 10/19/1998 4:51:10pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
Let me digress from the mechanical side of your MMO experience....I wonder, if you do come up with a cure for MRP, what the sociological ramifications would be of this sexual revolution. How do women respond to your Subject's abilities? (Are they throwing themselves at him?). Do you think it is possible for a true MMO man to practice sexual monogamy, or would you have to find a woman who is open to "open" marriage? (Ever thought of trying to break Walt Chamberlain's record! :)
My point is this: Are there some unintended consequences that we should contemplate? I remember reading some old magazine articles from the early 1960s on how the "pill" was going to banish teen pregnancy, illegitimacy, improve marriages, etc., but of course the human condition is more complex than that.....
Ah! I applaud this question in particular. It is both important, crucial, and thought-provoking. It also zeroes in on the crux of the matter: the "double-edged sword" aspect of this "gift."
Frankly, John, I am still attempting to find answers to this question, as — of course — is the Subject of the study. I am working on a novel which takes this to its "nth" degree and is serving as a wonderful sounding board in treating this very question to the harsh reality both for "good" and for "evil." If you enjoyed "Interview with A Vampire", wait 'til you read this one.
However, in the personal life of our Subject, just about every point you raise is a real issue with him. Were society different, and were there more males like him, the answers would be much easier, and the options for him equally as diverse. Unfortunately, they are not. As once expressed by our Subject: "I am the lone trailblazer in this, and have been all my life. But, after my passing, there will be others to carry on after me — though I hope to someday view the 'promised land,' myself. And what is that "promised land" for me? Countless beautiful women at my feet, perhaps? A harem? Endless sexual "sessions" lasting days on end? Perhaps, yes. Who knows? And who can say what the best societal options should be?" As for the "dark" side, it could be a nightmare for both the possessor and the "possessed" women, depending on how this capacity is used. But, as with nuclear energy both good and evil came of it, so also with this sexual power. However, as also with nuclear energy, so I believe with this capacity, so many more lives have been saved and/or enriched from nuclear science than have been destroyed.
000117
Tuesday 10/20/1998 3:03:10pm
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
OXYTOCIN: There are two related issues that have always intrigued me, but until recently I had located no research to tie the two together. The issues:
1) Why do men become sated after only one ejaculation (the MRP issue)?
2) Why do some multiorgasmic women become sated after several orgasms while others never reach satiety? (My wife is in the former category: She will sometimes have 2 or 3 orgasms then becomes sensitive and sated).
Two recent journal articles shed some light on the issue of satiety by pointing to the possible role of oxytocin (see article citations below). The authors of the Carmichael study found that oxytocin was released in great amounts just prior to the final, terminative orgasms of multiorgasmic women and monorgasmic men/women. This release of oxytocin was a marker for the last, satiating orgasm. The Carter study hypothesized a similar relationship based on animal studies. Unfortunately, all of the multiorgasmic women in the Carmichael study reached satiety (i.e., they could not go on forever like Teresa and yourself). Presumably, then, this oxytocin release does not take place in both of you....I corresponded with Dr. Carter and she said that someone at Rutgers is working on the role of oxytocin in human sexual behavior. Have they tested this hypothesis on you? This is an intriguing hypothesis because, if proven, it would help to find a cure for male and female refractoriness so that everyone could go on forever....
Marie S. Carmichael, Valerie L. Warburton, Jean Dixen, Julian M. Davidson, "Relationships Among Cardiovascular, Muscular, and Oxytocin Responses During Human Sexual Activity," Archives of Sexual Behavior 23, no. 1 (1994): 59-79.
C. Sue Carter (U. Of Maryland, Dept. of Zoology), "Oxytocin and Sexual Behavior," Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Review (1992): 131-44
Thank you again for all the great references!!! They are greatly appreciated! :)))
000118
Tuesday 10/20/1998 3:45:06pm
John
poodoo@hotmail.com
Illinois
The question of MRP leads to another issue — the inherent genetic inferiority of the human male. Our limited sexuality is only one example of the ways in which we are biologically inferior to women. Our hearing, sight, etc. all fade more rapidly with age than is true of women; and, of course, women outlive us by 7 years, a gap that continues to grow. Rather than ameliorate the gender gap, modern medicine and technology have widened it further. The same is true of sex: The vibrator, the pill, abortion, and (soon) a "multiple orgasm" pill — all of these developments have liberated human females from the constraints placed on them by nature. By contrast, the male sensory experience is quite limited. This is true of taste, smell, and hearing (vision is an exception). Imagine a race that was scientifically proven to be inferior in many important respects. How would the members of that race deal with their inferiority? Perhaps men act out their frustration by resorting to violence or by throwing themselves into work. Perhaps the thrill seekers among us are trying to compensate for the severe sensory deprivation that we experience as men....Frankly, I hope that for its sake our second child (due in several months) is a girl — she will live a long life and enjoy all that nature has provided for her.
Perhaps men seek great sexual variety to make up for the ever-disappointing reality of intercourse (it is far more exciting to chase and possess women, albeit briefly, than it is to experience the act itself). Why do men place such a premium on sex when it provides so little joy in their lives? Just think: Aside from using illegal drugs, there is no experience other than sex that provides human beings with intense physical pleasure. All of life's other pleasures are worthwhile — eating, reading, playing — but they pale in comparison to those few seconds of orgasm. Women take this for granted, because it is so easy for them to enjoy endless bliss. Teresa, think how much poorer your life would be if you were born without the ability to enjoy MO. If forced to choose, what would you be willing to give up to keep your MO abilities? It would be an even greater loss than for a man who had never experienced sex of any kind, because the range of joy available to you is so much greater.....
If your descriptions of unrestrained MMO are accurate, and not exaggerated, then I'm convinced that many (most?) men would sell their very souls for this experience. You and Teresa have described MO as "seeing color" in a land of color-blind people, "flying" above the pathetic monorgasmic men and women who are tied wheelchair-bound to earth, touching the very face of God (some multiorgasmic women have described their extended series of orgasms as an altered state of consciousness). If MO is THIS great, then I'm sure that men would give up many things that are dear to them to really LIVE for a while. For example, I have a dream career as a college professor and writer, but if what you say is true, then I would consider giving it up in exchange for bliss. I would also give up years of my life if it were possible to strike such a Faustian bargain. Perhaps men would even exchange marriage and family for physical bliss — to really experience life for a change. But, the sad reality is that this choice is not open to us, so we live our quiet, desperate lives as men, outsiders in a world designed for the enjoyment of femalekind.
Thank you very much for your entry and your remarks. While I don't feel quite as negatively towards the male "dilemma," I do understand why you feel as you do. Thus, it's time for a "liberation" movement for men, and this research will make the single greatest strides in that direction, in my opinion. And again, I believe you are right regarding men being willing to "give their souls" to be as freely MO as are women, which was what we documented in our study. This is why I am sure that funding will become available for this research once the study is finally published. For now, I cannot — even at my own site — publish the study until it has been professionally published, first. However, I have been in touch with the editor of JSET and was told that the issue with my study should appear before the end of the year. Then, we'll see what happens. :)
000119
Tuesday 10/20/1998 6:27:50pm
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
INEXPLICABLE SEX SURVEY FINDINGS: Several years ago, University of Chicago researchers published the first scientific survey of sexual attitudes and behavior (Social Organization of Sexual Behavior). I asked the researchers to look up the results to one of the questions listed in the appendix: "Who do you think usually enjoys sex more — men, women, or both about the same?" I asked them to break the results down by gender and number of orgasms in last event (i.e., break down the responses according to how many orgasms the respondent had in their last sexual event: 0, 1, 2, 3+).
The results were dumbfounding and, to me, quite inexplicable. In fact, the results hardly varied according to gender or degree of orgasmic capacity. 69% thought that both men and women enjoyed sex equally, 28% thought men enjoyed it more, and only 3% thought that women enjoyed sex more. There was no noticeable gender difference in response: 5% of men thought that women enjoyed it more, but only 1.2% of women thought that they enjoyed sex more than men!....The next findings were equally surprising, especially the multiorgasmic category. Of those men reporting 3+ orgasms in the last event (20% of sample), 30% thought that men enjoyed sex more, while 7% thought that women enjoyed sex more. Of the multiorgasmic women (the 21% who reported 3 or more orgasms in the last event), only 3% thought that they enjoyed sex more than men, while 22% thought that men enjoyed sex more. This is very strange. How can multiorgasmic women report that men enjoy sex more than they do?? The results were so strong in all categories that I was stunned by the findings. Are women in denial about their superior sexual capacities? Are they "brainwashed" by society into thinking that men enjoy sex more than they do? What do women have to gain by thinking this way?.....Perhaps the myth of Tiresias applies here. . . . .
Oh, I don't find this too inexplicable. This is why basing findings on "reported" claims of respondents never leads to any rational conclusions, nor can any logical inferences be drawn from such data. Why? Simply because there are too many variables and nothing is quantifiable. Thus, exaggeration, insecurity, absentmindedness, preoccupations, and on and on can enter into the motivations behind the responses received, none of which are verifiable, thus none can simply be accepted as fact. As a professor, you must know that you can't accept data as fact just because its in a study; you must first investigate the methodology used, and view the study on that basis.
000120
Wednesday 10/21/1998 12:39:04am
Joshua
Chicago
After following John B's thread a while I am even more depressed about my own sexuality than before. I am mono-orgasmic and they aren't that great anyway, yet live with a fully MO woman who can go on for 20-30 minutes in a state of continuous orgasm. I was jealous and thought I was the only male that felt that way. Now I feel like we are just, plain, sexually inferior to women. When my girlfriend uses her vibrator she goes into an orgasmic trance, riding an endless series of orgasms that seem to blend into one long, blissful event. I would give me right arm to have that ability — but doubt that this phenomenon (MRP) will ever be eradicated as there is too little interest in it by science.
I applaud your efforts to get some research done, but doubt much will take place. I think for some reasons most men don't give this much thought as they are trained by society to think of acquisition of a woman (i.e., the conquest) as the goal, not their own pleasure. If they focused on their pleasure they would see that it is far less than the women they are chasing. They are so thrilled to have someone to have sex with that they don't think much beyond that. I feel, in a way, deprived of what I know is the possible (at least for women — true satiation) and that which I cannot have. I kind of wish I never heard of, or witnessed, such MO ability in a woman.
Joshua.
This is why this research is so important. For millennia, men have have felt as you do to a greater or lesser extent. Perhaps it's time for an "evolutionary" step to take place. Hopefully, this will be possible soon.
000121
Wednesday 10/21/1998 4:06:31pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
O.K., Joshua, that's the bad news. Let me try to pep you up a bit. You can multiply your orgasmic pleasure many times over.
1) First, you can learn to have very satisfying emission-phase orgasms. The emission phase varies from man to man — for some men it is only a brief second before ejaculation so that the two phases blend together, but for others (myself included) there are 6-8 seconds of pure pleasure preceding ejaculation. You can experience this intense pleasure over and over. Forget all the mumbo-jumbo about breathing, humming, etc. Just stop at the very last second before ejaculation and let the semen flow out. Do this again and again. You will notice that as your prostate dries out, the emission phase (and pleasure) extends longer and longer (up to 6-8 seconds in my case). I find that the morning after doing this my insides ache from having my prostate contract so much (my prostate never aches the morning after I have a single-shot ejaculatory orgasm).
2) You cannot eliminate MRP but it is possible to work through it and have full, multiple ejaculations with a flaccid penis. I do this by lying on my back, putting my legs together and bearing down with my pelvic muscles, not to “hold back†but to catapult up to another ejaculation. My record is 15 full ejaculations in a 75 minute period (last week, I had four ejaculations in an 11 minute period). However, I find that these ejaculations are not as intense.
3) Prostate stimulation: Have you ever stimulated your prostate? The prostate is the source of male orgasmic contractions. You can stimulate it externally (by pushing the point below your penis at the moment of orgasm). As Brent notes, this doesn't work for all men, but does for many. Prostate stimulation produces a deeper, more satisfying sensation. Direct prostate stimulation can be EXTREMELY intense. The problem, of course, is that it is hard to reach inside yourself while stroking your penis. Have your girlfriend use her finger or insert an anal vibrator. The orgasms that I have had with an anal vibrator are mind-blowing — legs jerking, really intense orgasms that last up to a full minute.
Caveat: Many women (my wife included) are turned off by this. The sex manuals say that men should do whatever helps their wives/girlfriends achieve orgasm(s), but women often don't feel the same responsibility toward helping their men achieve super O's.
Caveat II: The prostate, like the female G-spot, can be elusive. Stimulating your prostate before you reach emission-phase is not pleasurable (remember your last doctor's visit?!). Sometimes you will stimulate it at the point of orgasm and the increase in pleasure will be modest. But, at other times, WOW!! Drop me a line at erotic99@yahoo.com and I'd be happy to continue this conversation…..
P.S.: We need to make another point: Men are cursed by monorgasmia, but many women suffer from the same refractoriness. Some sex researchers hypothesize that all women are insatiable (like your girlfriend) but they often present this hypothesis as if it were fact. The presumption is that monorgasmia is “all in her head†or that cultural conditioning keeps these women from coming over and over again. This is highly doubtful (and condescending to boot). This unproved hypothesis places a great deal of performance pressure on monorgasmic women. After all, women who are “good in bed†are those who have endless orgasms, but very few women can. No wonder women “fake it†(remember Meg Ryan in Sleepless in Seattle?). Most men, when hearing of your girlfriend's abilities would compare her performance to that of their wives/girlfriends, who mostly come up short. (Compared to your girlfriend, my wife is lousy in bed because she only has one, at the most two orgasms).
The oxytocin studies (see below) suggest that this hormone might be responsible for MRP in men and FRP in monorgasmic women (the same finding would hold for multiorgasmic women who reach a terminative orgasm). It could also explain why women who were monorgasmic become multiorgasmic later in life — it might be due to a change in their hormonal balance (oxytocin is known as a “female†hormone). That's why I think this continuing research is so exciting — because it promises to eliminate a condition that affects all men AND many women……
P.P.S.: I think you are right about the unreflective nature of men: To turn a phrase from The Feminine Mystique, MRP is “the problem that has no name.†Men resent their condition, but do not express it, or are not aware of their frustration. Women, as we all know, are much better at “communicating†their feelings. Moreover, it is acceptable for women to complain/bitch/whine about the lot nature has handed them (feminists have spent several decades ripping society, nature, God for handing reproductive/motherhood responsibilities to women). But, complaining/bitching/whining is “unmanly.†(Get over it, be a man). I'm curious — have you ever expressed your feelings to your girlfriend? What does she think of male sexuality?? Does she feel sorry for you? Most likely, she doesn't give it any thought? And why do women always act as if they are doing US a favor by having sex? (The myth of Tiresias again).
First off, your claims to having "full, multiple ejaculations with a flaccid penis" I find difficult to believe. This is not to say that they are impossible in my view, and I do not wish to debate the issue here. If such is your experience, then I would highly recommend that — as you are a "college professor" — you use your connections to have a study funded and conducted to document this capacity. I am sure that the Quad-S would be very interested in such a capacity and would be happy to fund such an initial study, just as they were with mine. Once this is accomplished, I would be most sincerely interested in reviewing the study, myself. :)
000122
Thursday 10/22/1998 9:51:42am
Private Message 122
000123
Saturday 10/24/1998 5:30:47pm
Private Message 123
000124
Sunday 10/25/1998 2:41:17pm
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
For all you MRP junkies out there, I contacted an oxytocin researcher at McGill University (he has used oxytocin to revive the flagging sex drives of rats fed Prozac). His response is below (with some citations as to other possible culprits in the MRP riddle):
"Anyway, yes, oxytocin does seem to be the culprit in the refractory period. (In animals, we call it the PEI, the post-ejaculatory interval.) I have not done anything yet in humans. Unfortunately, drug companies are mainly interested in pursuing new molecules, which they can patent. Oxytocin is a naturally occurring hormone whose synthesis has been well known for while, so it would be of little financial interest. As well, since oxytocin is a peptide, an oxytocin pill would be broken down in the stomach and not be circulated easily in plasma. The nasal preparations are a possibility, but is does not give an easily regulated dosage.
However, I don't think there is much potential for oxytocin (or oxytocin antagonists) to eliminate the PEI. Like so much in nature, oxytocin does more than one thing at a time. Even though high levels of oxytocin are related to PEI (let's assume causality for a moment), it also is related to the pleasure of orgasm. In eliminating the signal that says, "enough, already" you may also interfere with the signal which says, "Gee, that was fun."
Oh, there have been other reports in animals with substances which reduce or eliminate the PEI. None of these explored oxytocin, but I believe the mechanisms worked by re-regulating the release of oxytocin.
Rodriguez-Manzo, G., & Fernandez-Guasti, A. (1994). Reversal of sexual exhaustion by serotonergic and noradrenergic agents. Behavioural Brain Research, 62(2), 127-134.
Lorrain, D. S., Matuszewich, L., & Hull, E. M. (1997). Extracellular serotonin in the lateral hypothalamic area is increased during the postejaculatory interval and impairs copulation in male rats. Journal of Neuroscience, 17(23), 9361-9366.
McIntosh, T. K., & Barfield, R. J. (1984). Brain monoaminergic control of male reproductive behavior. I. Serotonin and the post-ejaculatory refractory period. Behavioral Brain Research, 12, 255-265."
Absolutely fascinating!!! Wow!!! What a fantastic reference! Thank you so much!!!
Have you read of Whipple and Komisaruk's recent discovery of a stomach peptide which is supposed to be somehow linked to female orgasm? For a brief time, this was mistakenly reported in the popular media as the precursor to an "orgasm pill" for women. Thus, I found it interesting that oxytocin is also considered to be (at least by this latest report) a peptide. Curiouser and curiouser!
Well, again, only time will tell what is what — time and research, that is.
000127
Sunday 10/25/1998 5:16:13pm
Private Message 127
000128
Monday 10/26/1998 1:48:32pm
Teresa
Michigan
What fascinating research and discussion I continue to find here. John, I will answer your question (past entry) along with adding comments in an entry to follow.
Your comments are always welcome. Thank you!
000129
Monday 10/26/1998 9:49:02pm
Mack
mfhftl@aol.com
ftlauderdale
Interesting.... I have always had the ability to have multiple orgasms without a refractory period. It will be interesting to talk with others out there that are like me.
Wonderful! Now, if you are willing to assist us, we may need future research volunteers. If you are over the age of 18 and would be willing to have yourself monitored as you demonstrate this natural capacity, I will keep you in mind along with those few others who have likewise claimed this same capacity. However, be aware that you would not be paid or recompensed in any way for your expenses and time. Neither was our Subject, by the way.
000130
Wednesday 10/28/1998 6:33:28am
Teresa
Michigan
Finally, an opportunity to revisit the questions John B posed in entry #118. Your mere questions reflect to me the differences (perhaps) in men and women. While I can assure you my MO ability is not exaggerated, I cannot think of much I would be willing to give up if I had to choose. I do not think that my life would be poorer if I did not have this ability. As I have previously stated, I would gladly give it up to have a true communion of souls with a partner. It is usually a point of frustration since past partners are not MO and the labels I have put on me because of the ability, very hurtful. Thus, to give it up and truly link souls, on a much deeper aspect, yes I would and my life would be very rich. I find it interesting that you think most men would "sell their souls" for the chance to live a while. For anyone who would, I pity. Personally, I seek deeper understanding, communion, communication, bonding with someone. How rich the gifts from such an experience... and yes, richer than the ability to be MO (my opinion). While I continue to applaud our host on his research and striving to seek answers and hopefully a positive from continued research, again I question the motive of other men. I believe that regardless of a persons ability (mono or MO), there is or should be so much more in a relationship than such a focus on orgasmic ability! I also know the frustration spoken here as I have my own, and it is not something most truly understand. So here we all are... searching for answers or simply acceptance and understanding. Peace everyone.
000131
Wednesday 10/28/1998 2:53:39pm
John B.
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
The question seems to be: "Why can't a man be more like a woman?" Physically, it is impossible to approach women as equals (unless they are one of those unfortunate women who is monorgasmic). There is no true physical communion because we must always "hold back" our physical feelings and remain detached from the whole experience. Thus, sexual relations becomes a form of mutual masturbation. Likewise, men are not capable of the same sustained level of emotional communion. There is probably a hormonal basis for these differences in sexual physiology and emotional makeup (oxytocin, for example, is not only a sex hormone but also the hormone responsible for the bonding/mothering/nurturing instinct).
Teresa, you are right about "women trading sex for love" (and men trading love for sex), but it is nearly impossible to sustain such feelings beyond a long infatuation phase. I can remember the first two years that my wife and I were together — we made love nearly every day and were quite wrapped up in each other. After having children, however, it is difficult to maintain this "true communion" that you speak of. Yet, women continue to long for this deep romance. Someone once said that if you want to understand what women want, don't read Ms. magazine, just look at romance novels. On the surface, homosexuality would appear to offer a solution, but in practice this does not always work out (the literature seems to suggest that lesbian relationships can be quite stormy). So, where does that leave us? If there is a God (or Goddess), then He (She) must have had a perverse sense of humor to create such conflicting desires in men and women.
P.S.: I find it sad and surprising that men would say "hurtful" things about your sexual insatiableness. You would think that most men would treat you as a goddess, or at the very least as a person deserving of respect and love. The world would be a better place if we all lived by the Golden Rule.
000132
Thursday 10/29/1998 4:00:09am
Teresa
Michigan
Thanks for the kind words John (131). I guess we all have our burdens to bear. I do agree that the infatuation period diminishes when the day in day out routine called life settles in and add children....well. Being past that phase (my children are older) I have had the need for such a vital bond or communion return strongly. Maybe I now have a little more time to think about that void I ignored for a long time. As for what women want, I have to agree (this woman anyway) read the romance novels and trash Ms. magazine. Besides, I'm already an independent woman who can speak for herself. The idea of a lesbian relationship being an alternative, well, not for me. I have a high preference for the male species. And...so it goes. While the differences in men and women can be exuberating, they are as equally frustrating. Thus here we are looking for answers, or perhaps seeking acceptance and understanding. Thanks for the continual, intriguing conversations. By the way, is there an update on the status of the research study publication??? Can hardly wait to see it in print and watch what starts happening ... I feel good things!! Peace everyone!
Thank you, Teresa, for your interest, your replies, and your questions. To answer the question here: I have recently been in touch with one of the editors of JSET (The Journal of Sex Education and Therapy) and been told that the study will appear in Volume 23, Issue 2. This, according to her, "...should be out before the end of the year." I recently received the proofing galleys of the study, which is a pre-print of how the study will look in the magazine, and it looks wonderful! The graphs, etc., all look great and will hopefully cause the sex research community, if not the world at large, to stand up and take notice. After all, it will be the first study ever to dispel the old tired beliefs about male sexual response, and turn attention to that which prior to the study was considered "physiologically impossible."
000133
Thursday 10/29/1998 8:07:06am
Private Message 133
000134
Sunday 11/01/1998 3:24:05pm
RUSTY BAKER
mrr@cheerful.com
TEXAS
I have been using these multi-orgasmic techniques for about 3 years now. I guess it just evolved into this sense of sexuality over the years out of the desire to prolong intercourse as long as possible. I can go almost indefinitely without a major ejaculation unless I want to let it go. During this period, I have 50-60 mini-orgasms.
The down side is that each one produces a spurt of ejaculant and after an hour or so, my partners vagina is extremely over-lubricated.
I am 49 years old and have been very active sexually all my life. Over the last thirty years, I have had great sex with over 200 very beautiful young ladies. I have been in a monogamous relationship for the last 6 years (she is now 25) and sex is one of the most wonderful things in our lives.
000135
Tuesday 11/03/1998 6:04:30pm
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
"Some guys have all the luck . . . ." 200 "very beautiful young ladies"?!! What's the key to your success? Rich and successful? (It seems all my M.D., lawyer, and entrepreneur friends have the beautiful wives). I've read that the average middle-aged man has a median of only 6 sexual partners in his lifetime, and you can bet that most of them were not "very beautiful"! (The other curse of male sexuality — we are very visual, but there are not very many beautiful women to go around).....
P.S.: Of your 200 partners, how many were multiorgasmic (more than 3 orgasms/session)? How many were superorgasmic — endless waves of orgasms (like Joshua's girlfriend)?
000136
Wednesday 11/04/1998 3:08:56pm
RUSTY BAKER
mrr@cheerful.com
TEXAS
Nope, John you've got it all wrong. I'm just an average-looking guy and not really wealthy. I've had many conversations with my "girlfriends" about why they were attracted to me. The most common answer was charisma. Next was confidence. Thirdly was that I didn't "come on " to them. I listened to them intently and paid attention to what was going on in their lives. Things just happened from that point — sometimes almost instantly other times, much later. I have remained good friends with many of them over the years and six of them are my best friends to this day and we correspond weekly by phone or on the net.
As far as the beautiful part — most really gorgeous women are alone most of the time because every jerk in the world is bothering them. The exception is the Gold-digger type.
I sought out only truely beautiful, intelligent women and have never been seen in public with less than a "10". When the other "10"'s see this they were curious about me and were easy to meet (women are very competitive). The multiple orgasm part? Only 4 or 5 would have more than one orgasm consistently. My experience is that most women are completely spent if the orgasm is an earth-shattering one. I should also note that I have never had sex with a woman over the age of 35. The majority of them were 18-28.
000137
Sunday 11/08/1998 9:18:20pm
Michael
Washington, DC
I just wanted to say that I have always been able to achieve multiple orgasms, and thought it was somehting all men could do. When I was in high school, a friend of mine was talking about ejaculating up to three times in one lovemaking session and I thought he was fool of it. My girlfriend and I at the time were not having intercourse, but maintained a healthy sexual relationship. The wonderful woman that she is, she agreed to continue to give me oral sex after I ejaculated once and see if I could come again. It was no problem, and the second orgasm was more powerful than the first. Upon mentioning it to my friend, two others who were with us said they had done the same thing, but couldn't always do it. Since then, I have had multiple orgasms several times during intercourse, but occasionally it just goes on too long and the second one never happens. I have never tried for three like my friend said originally. I rarely try for multiple orgasms because my girlfriend is extremely orgasmic, and I was blessed with great staying power, so it is a "gift" we rarely need to use. She has actually had to stop before me a few times because she is unable to continue without a recovery. I knew this was not normal, but was quite shocked to hear that most men are incapable of having at least two orgasms without a recovery period. This was very interesting to me. I always thought it was more of a mental hang-up/selfishness thing amongst men that caused them to give up after one orgasm. I was never aware that there were physiological inhibitors as well. It has always been my contention that we can control our bodies with our minds, and always just thought I was able to achieve multiple orgasms because I was dedicated to pleasing my mate. I have heard many women say it is often over before she is satisfied, but since I have been faithful to one woman my whole life (I know, scary, huh?) I have never experienced this. She is one of those women who is extremely bent towards multiple orgasm, and usually has her first one within five minutes, if even that much. In any case, I am straying form the point, which is I believe there are many men out there capable of multiple orgasm, maybe most men, because it seems a strange coincidence that I have know three people openly capable of doing it in my short life. I did not include my email address, call it old-fashioned hang-ups about sexual honesty, but you can reply to me here. I will check periodically.
Yes, Michael, it is not uncommon — depending on the degree of arousal/stimulation (e.g., Coolidge Effect, etc.) — for many men to experience two (in your case) or even three orgasms (in the case of the friend you mentioned) before the male refractory period (MRP) kicks in. Sometimes greater excitement and arousal can temporarily keep the MRP at bay enough for another orgasm or two. However, were you to compare your orgasmic capacity with that of your girlfriend or other "extremely orgasmic" women, you would quickly see the difference. This is because, though such women may request a "recovery" time after several orgasms for emotional and/or sensory overload reasons, they do not experience a "refractory period" as almost all men do (yourself included) during which time they are physiologically incapable of re-experiencing orgasm.
Last of all, let me gently state that occasionally being doubly or triply orgasmic is not quite the same as being multiply orgasmic. Should you ever get to the point of being able to have five, ten, twenty orgasms and more, with no "down" time in between, you'll understand exactly what I mean. This is what is possible where no MRP exists, and it's not the numbers that matter so much as the capacity to enjoy and revel in sexuality — without limits. Of course, two orgasms are certainly twice as good as only one — and thus you should feel quite deservedly proud of that! :)
000138
Monday 11/09/1998 6:10:55pm
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
Illinois
This question is for those of you who have (or have had) partners who are extremely orgasmic: How do your partners view male sexuality? Do they take pity on you? Or, perhaps, they never thought about how lousy sex is for a man?
P.S.: I've corresponded with men and women on this subject and found the female response quite amusing: Many respondents thought that men were selfish pigs for wanting more than one orgasm — they should focus on pleasing their partners instead. Female chauvinism is alive and well! The men had never really thought about this issue but after viewing this site they were quite depressed about their limitations. My guess is that this research might do more harm than good by raising an issue that is better left alone.
If those of you visiting this site do indeed feel that the possibility of expanding the horizons of male sexuality is somehow more harmful than beneficial, let me know and I'll shut the site down. While personally I feel it extremely shortsighted, if not self-serving, to ignore such potentialities in favor of male ego, I am aware that there may be a greater number of men out there who would prefer to not have their own sexuality threatened, even if it is only to report on new discoveries that might actually result in tremendous benefits to themselves and their lovers. For some, they would rather live under false pretenses so as to appease their own insecurities rather than contemplate and embark on a journey of discovery and promise for the future. *Sigh!* Perhaps the world is not yet mature enough to objectively consider such possible future realities if it means having to recognize the realities of the present. Of course, when as a society we choose to bury our collective heads in the sand, we present a most engaging target to our enemies. In your case, John (as probably with many men), your enemies are your own sexual insecurities and your male ego. I can only hope that society, as a whole, is not also as insecure and afraid of the truth.
000139
Tuesday 11/10/1998 7:33:17am
Sunny
Southern Comfort
Reference to entry #138. John: “My guess is that this research might do more harm than good by raising an issue that is better left alone.â€
And you would be living in which century? My guess would be somewhere possibly around the 12th. Research that seeks to enhance one of the strongest bonds and forms of communications between men and women does harm? Maybe to those who are not capable or ready to experience the real joy of extended equaled lovemaking.
“I only made love to a "10" once in my life, but it was the most exciting lovemaking session I ever had. Nothing else comes close.â€
Charity abounds in every aspect doesn't it? Little wonder your “10†only gave once. There's so little to go around when one doesn't have unlimited resources. My advise to John; Take 2 Viagra, ring up your “Single orgasmic 10†and then ask her the next morning if it was “you†she fantasized about during sex.
Good points, all. You have a wonderful gift for stating things both succinctly and to the point, and with a bit of impish wit, as well. Thank you, Sunny!
000140
Tuesday 11/10/1998 10:36:54am
Teresa
Michigan
Hats off to Sunny's reply! John, I found your comments harsh and insulting. Didn't your momma ever teach you NOT to judge a book by the cover? Wow, I pity your wife (if you have one) if this is your point of view... lusting after the lost "10" in your life and settling for less. No wonder so many women suffer from eating disorders. Wonder how the tables would be turned if it were men who gave birth and truly carried the duties of parenting with careers. This entire conversation strikes me as extremely shallow. Perhaps it is from an intimidation and fear on ones own sexuality. B, I hope you continue to maintain the site and provide pertinent updates to your research.
Thank you, too, Teresa. I promise not to take down the site, especially when women like you and Sunny write in to support this site and the research it represents. This sexual capacity, as I've said before, can be used for great good or great evil, depending on the man. And so, John may be right to some degree; this research could ultimately do more harm than good should this sexual capacity fall into too many wrong hands, hands perhaps like yours, John, that seem to view women more as sexual appliances than people. This does worry me, and sometimes I am troubled by this enough to consider simply disappearing and keeping who and what I am to myself. However, Teresa and Sunny are right: progress is not possible without risk and, yes, even danger. I can't prejudge society based on my own fears; society has had to deal with both the benefits and calamities of nuclear power, and so will it with whatever future results this research provides. So, John, if you're listening ... get over it.
000141
Tuesday 11/10/1998 3:10:37pm
John
Illinois
O.K., everyone, chill out. You can't have it both ways. One the one hand, you describe what a "pity" it is that men are, physiologically speaking, sexual losers (look at the opening quotes and some of Brent and Teresa's earlier descriptions of what men are missing). Then, when men realize that, in fact, we have been robbed of one of the great pleasures of life, you say, "Get over it. Don't be so sex-obsessed"! In an earlier entry, Teresa and Brent described the blissful ecstacy of multiorgasmia, then when asked whether her life would be poorer, Teresa said no. Well, if women enjoy a fantastically richer sex life than men and they lost this ability wouldn't their lives be that much poorer? And, yes, knowledge is useful, though from my reading of the literature on male ejaculation, the physiological processes are so complex and barely understood that it is probably more reasonable to conclude that we will come up with a way of transmuting lead into gold....For generations, women were taught that sex was for men and that they should settle for less. Eventually, the women's movement "liberated" women from these artificially imposed restrictions on their superior sexuality. Men are in the same predicament, except that we ARE inferior. If women loathed themselves in the past because of the common (but false) beliefs about female sexuality; how much more men should curse their own inferior sexuality. Indeed, some feminist writers have posited that male restrictions on female sexuality were borne of clit envy. Which raises a question that has always interested me: Does anyone know of literature on "clitoris envy" or "orgasm envy"? (Why on earth would anyone envy the penis, an organ that brings so little pleasure to its owner)?
P.S.: I regret my comments about "10s." Sometimes, the anonymity of the Internet encourages a running of the mouth. It is still true, however, that being married with kids has its costs — for women, a loss of romance (Teresa commented on this earlier); and, for men, a loss of sexual variety. We can pretend that men don't desire sexual variety, but who are you fooling? Of course, the human condition requires that we accept some things with equanimity.
You know, there's some parts of this reply that I could relate to. hehehe
First off, I think you're exaggerating the "both ways" aspect you perceive to exist. Perhaps this is because the point made by the respondents of the Hite Report you referenced is being blown a bit out of proportion. Yes, there is a problem. Yes, men presently endure a refractory period after full, natural ejaculation. And yes, men are not as yet able to experience the true multiorgasmic experience. However, this does not mean that men are "inferior," or that they should "get over it." Nor does it mean that they have been "robbed." What you appear to be unable to recognize — though I and Teresa both have stated this several times — is that women (despite their multiorgasmic potentials) do NOT generally judge their male partners on their sexual capacity/performance to the degree that you think they do. I repeat yet again that Teresa stated that she would willingly give up her multiorgasmic ability if she could find someone with whom to truly connect emotionally. For her, and I would venture for MOST women (yes, even the most libidinous of the lot), finding a deeply fulfilling EMOTIONAL relationship means much more to them than the sexual.
Last of all, consider this fact: BOTH sexes have their limitations, however in different — if not opposite — areas. Men have to suffer the cruel fact of nature that despite a seemingly infinite libido, they must have this short-circuited by limited sexual capacity. And women must endure the fact that their infinite sexual capacity for pleasure is short-circuited by their limited libidos (yes, ladies, compared to the degree and the frequency with which men think and fantasize about sex, there is no competition whatsoever). Hence the old saying: "Men exchange love for sex; women exchange sex for love." So you see, BOTH sexes (generally speaking, of course) have their own unique limitations that keep them from enjoying to the fullest that which nature has given them. We both want different things. Hell, our own bodies are at constant odds with themselves, wanting something they cannot fully possess, while not wanting that which they ARE able to fully enjoy. It's not just a male thing. You are overly stressing the sexual angle without realizing the fact that it is much MORE an issue with you, as a man, than it is with women. So, stop worrying about it! Women want true companionship, not a gigolo. My hope is to discover the means to provide men the ability to offer their women both.
000142
Wednesday 11/11/1998 11:20:58am
John
You misinterpreted what I said. I did not say that WOMEN cared whether or not we are MMO (I agree that they don't care); rather, I am saying that men are denied this experience of ecstacy (regardless of whether or not they are in a relationship with a woman). Why does male pleasure (or the lack thereof) have to be referenced to what women supposedly want? And, yes, you are right about men and women wanting different things. The difference: A woman can have her cake (magnificent sex) and eat it too (in an emotionally satisfying relationship). A man can have an emotionally satisfying relationship but can never enjoy magnificent, mind-blowing sex.
If you were truly interested in improving sexual pleasure for men, as also am I, I'd think you would be applauding this research. Instead, time after time, you have attempted to discourage this site and the research it represents. Most recently, you lament that this site is supposedly attacking men's sexual self-esteem, and that for this reason research would "do more harm than good." Well, reality check time: it certainly didn't take this site to bring to everyone's attention the disparity between male and female sexual responses. Since the dawn of humankind, men and women have been very much aware of the refractory period. This is why the ancient Chinese and Indian cultures wrote of the same ejaculatory control techniques still being proclaimed in each "new" "multiorgasmic" book to hit the shelves. This is not new at all. And the fact that women don't need such techniques is also universally known. Thus, again, it would seem to me that research validating the premise that the refractory period is NOT biologically mandatory would give real hope to men everywhere!
Perhaps your continual opposition is based more on the difficulty you face in accepting the fact that there might be men out there different from yourself. Even should such men hold the key to benefiting ALL men, better for your ego that they just shut up and stay hidden from public knowledge. As this is the only alternative that can be concluded given your seeming continual negativity as regards this site and the research represented, all I can say is that the research will continue, I will not fade away quietly into the night, and should there be those who would hereafter vilify or demonize me for who and what I am, so be it. I have often considered the movie "Edward Scissorhands" as being highly representative of my life; the parallels are staggering. While I hope Society does not likewise choose to ostracize me as Edward's neighbors ultimately did him, I cannot be but who and what I am.
000144
Wednesday 11/11/1998 6:10:43pm
John
I've been mulling over two questions which I thought our multiorgasmic host (and our multiorgasmic women listeners) might be able to answer:
1. AGING: What effect has aging had on the force of your orgasms and ejaculations? Like many men, I find that my orgasms are much, much weaker than when I was a teenager. Back then, I would blank out the outside world and feel a rush of heat and cold (much like my wife describes now), but today it is just a blip and a dribble of semen. I barely blink an eye when it happens. Perhaps this is because a single orgasm doesn't work the relevant muscles enough? Are your orgasms and ejaculations as strong as when you were younger? (I think the study mentioned that you are 35 years old, which is my age).............
2. CONTINUOUS ORGASMS: There seem to be two types of MOs — those that occur with machine-gun rapidity (e.g., Joshua's girlfriend had repeated orgasms lasting up to 30 min.) and those where 5-10 orgasms are strung over a 30 minute period. My guess is that it takes a constant vibrating force to trigger status orgasmus? Have you ever tried something like the Venus 2000 (a vibrating pump that goes over the penis) to see whether you are capable of constant orgasms with no break in between?
Coincidentally, both your questions can be answered from my viewpoint with a single word: arousal. I have noticed a very slight decrease in my ability to achieve the natural "high" I used to. It takes more orgasms and is not as acute as it was in my youth. Perhaps, as with narcotics, the body accustoms itself to the same "dose" of endorphins and thus the effect is somewhat lessened. That is the only deleterious effect age has produced in me. However, with regards to your own orgasmic experiences now, I too can have poor orgasms if my arousal is not very high. The intensity of orgasms is almost always in direct proportion to the state of arousal, and — not coincidentally, in my opinion, it is EMOTION that intensifies arousal most! Not "love", but the erotic emotions of sex: lust, for lack of a better word (of course, feelings of love help intensify and focuse the erotic emotions). This is why the "Coolidge Effect" decreases the MRP to the degree that it usually does. It heightens lust and thus arousal, which heightens pleasure, which feeds the arousal, and which thus decreases the effect of the MRP in most men. Of course, we all can't have new partners every time, or harems from which to pick and choose. But, however we each choose to achieve it, arousal is the single most important factor in decreasing MRP, increasing pleasure, and thus ensuring a more satisfying sexual experience, — and the same can be said for women, too. What CAUSES arousal, however, can vary greatly between individuals, so "know thyself." As for the "Venus 2000" — again, I will state that it is not physical stimulation alone that will produce such orgasms; it is arousal.
000145
Wednesday 11/11/1998 6:36:34pm
Michael
Chicago
I think that what John was trying to say was that men need to express their pain and sense of loss. It is not a matter of "male ego" (funny how we never hear the term "female ego"!) nor is it a matter of "male insecurities." Insecurity means being "unsure, uncertain" of one's abilities. Well, there is nothing more certain than MRP!! My wife is extremely orgasmic (up to 20 orgasms in a row) and screams out in ecstacy. My orgasm, on the other hand, is a piffle. Am I "insecure" because I wish that I could experience this pleasure? Or is my envy a rational response to my own innate inability to experience joyous sex? We have not walked in your research subject's shoes, as he points out, but he has not walked in the shoes of men who are consigned to the ash heap of sexual history. My wife is a feminist who talks about the unfair burdens "nature" imposes on women (namely, the responsibility for motherhood). Indeed, feminism seems dedicated to raging against Mother Nature, even to the point of aborting their fetuses to assert control over their bodies. Feminism has allowed women to share their feelings about such matters, but when men speak out, they are called "insecure."
I can tell from your IP that you know exactly what John is trying to say because, "Michael", you are John. To your point, let me respond thusly: it is not your "sense of loss" nor even your "envy" that I was responding to, but instead your statement that because "men" (according to you) have responded to this site negatively with respect to their views of their own sexual abilities, this research would "do more harm than good." That was what I was taking issue with.
000146
Wednesday 11/11/1998 7:49:49pm
— No Comment —
acerx@ripco.com
Chicago
Well...
I have had several lovemaking sessions where I have had two ejaculations but not two orgasms. It was weird when I felt the semen pulsing out without an orgasm.
I am polyerectile as well: I have a very short refractory period... usually in the two minute or less range. (Foreplay between erections is something that's VERY "handy" (joke) to do until you are ready to go at it some more.) Too bad I have to wait to find out about this other guy and his "abilities."
To John: One of the big problems in the world is that men are too superficial, The woman I am now with may not be one of your "10's", but I connect with her on an emotional level. When we first met, we talked and I wasn't thinking sex at all (let's just say a little meditation goes a LONG way.. I also don't get angry anymore, because anger provides stress which weakens the sex drive as well.). That's something that definitely has helped our relationship.. that and some... interesting in the bedroom.. (We are pretty creative in the bedroom.. :) I mean, we actually talk and I like her and I love her.. Sounds like a repetitive statement but it's possible to like people without loving them and too many people rush into marriage with people they love but don't like.....
My two cents worth..
x
Hey, love that term, "polyerectile". Very apropos, too! As for your observation regarding ejaculation without orgasm, yes this is not too uncommon, either. Sometimes, in the Plateau phase, you can go over the ejaculatory edge for just a second, enough to initiate some ejaculatory contractions, yet lose the orgasm either voluntarily or — should stimulation or arousal stop — involuntarily. As for your remarks regarding your relationship, good points all.
000147
Thursday 11/12/1998 11:38:49am
Teresa
In regards to your Subject's comments about being ostracized because of who and what he is... he is who he is. A person created as we all were. Granted, with a difference than any other known man, but still a human being with a heart and feelings. Someone willing to go out of a very shaky limb in the hopes that research might shed light on his ability and benefit others. For that he deserves applause and respect. Alas, as in the story of Edward Scissorhands, ostracism occurs when others do not have the capability, desire or unconditional attitude to understand and openly accept a difference. What a pity in the loss they do not realize they suffer by thinking like this! Listen...do you hear it...sounds like applause!
I am speechless. Thank you so very much. :)))
000148
Thursday 11/12/1998 2:26:35pm
Joshua
I understand, and empathize, with John. It just seems a bit like a cruel joke that I have less intense, less enjoyable, and short mono-orgasms while my wife's orgasms are getting stronger, longer and more intense each year. Yet I am the one with the constant nagging sexual urges that never seem to be fulfilled. She feels like she could take it or leave it. It certainly does lead to envy.
Joshua
Yep! That cruel twist of fate! Well, while I can do nothing for women's libidos — or lack thereof — I am hopeful that research might help unlock the male sexual potential denied our gender. Perhaps we may someday find that were men's sexual capacities to match their libidos, women's libidos might be more inclined to match their sexual capacities. Obviously, I am not so zealous as to think that doing away with the refractory period will somehow solve all of mankind's problems, however, given all that divides men and women, a little more common sexual ground can't hurt!
000149
Friday 11/13/1998 6:00:17am
John
While I can agree on the importance of arousal, I doubt that this explains the dramatic physical weakening of contractions. The physical reaction is not that different even on those occasions when I am extremely aroused. The degree of change and the universal consistency of reduced contractive force leads me to think that it is part of aging. I've read in the general literature that the orgasmic contractions become weaker with age in both men and women, but I've never come across a peer-reviewed article examining this question. There is so much to learn!
P.S.: As for the "Coolidge effect," I think there is a lot of truth to that — sex with one woman is not very exciting (and, besides, there is so little time with careers, kids, etc.), which is why men turn to pornography. I get much more aroused by switching my focus from one woman to the next and my nonejaculatory orgasms are then very satisfying. It also makes it easier for me to have those forced multiple ejaculations that I explained earlier. Oh, well, perhaps I will be reincarnated as a rooster!!!
LOL!!! I love it! Well, obviously, a lot more research needs to be done in the area of male sexual response and physiology. It's impossible to say at this point how much you are experiencing is common for men your age, how much might be hereditary, and how much might be subjective/anecdotal and/or a result of other factors specific to you. However, as Jessi says in Entry #152, relax and don't put so damned much pressure on yourself.
000150
Friday 11/13/1998 7:52:54am
Linda
sari@flash.net
Texas
John, Teresa could one of you please enlighten me to the “Coolidge Effect†and how it applies to this discussion. My email is sari@flash.net. Thanks.
Also John in answer to your entry #144 from a female perspective —
Age has only served to enhance and intensify my orgasms.
2-Continuious Orgasms — While MO myself — only once have I experienced the “continuous orgasms†with no intermission. Normally there is a pause “refractory period†if you will between successive orgasms.
For a complete explanation of the "Coolidge Effect", please take a peek at my response to Entry #71 of this guestbook.
Also, the refractory period is a period of time during which another orgasm is "physiologically impossible." The fact that you have had continuous orgasms, if only once, proves that nothing is physiologically keeping you from having them. Thus, you do not have a refractory period, really; after an orgasm, you return to the Plateau phase and climb to orgasm again. This is how most women usually experience multiple orgasm, and how I do as well.
000151
Friday 11/13/1998 8:50:58am
jessi
jessi@pacbell.net
san francisco
In searching the web and specific sites such as Medline, yours was the only information I could find on the subject.
I look forward to the possibility of more research in this area (if funding ever goes back to sex research). My interest actually lies is what you consider an unnatural multiple orgasm using techniques to inhibit ejaculation.
I am aware of the physiological orgasmic response as documented by Masters and Johnson, and also have a great deal of background in tantric and taoist practices. By raising the level of sex to more than just "having an orgasm", a much more intense and multi-orgasmic experience is possible. (This is naturally paradoxical.) It makes sense biologically that males would have to employ techniques to stop ejaculation. A woman's orgasms enhance her likelihood of having intercourse and the egg is released cyclically, whereas a male's orgasms also enhance the desire for sex but sperm are released with each ejaculation. Thus the instinctual desire to procreate must include ejaculation. Generally, only by control can that ejaculation be stopped. The research done on the intensity of manual multiple orgasm must be researched further before any conclusions can be made — there are just not enough subjects that have been looked at. Good luck and thanks.
Too often, I feel, evolutionary characteristics are too quickly ascribed to explain and/or understand behavioral or physiological norms, including sexuality. And where males are concerned, I obviously do not agree that ejaculatory control is somehow tantamount to either good health or spiritual strength, much less sexual fulfillment. This viewpoint admittedly goes against taoist philosophy, and thus I hope not to offend, but I have personally proved it not to be valid. My health is excellent, and my spiritual and emotional state is also well-balanced and developed (I've been outa the straitjacket for almost a month, now! *wink*). And yet, as I have documented for my own benefit, I orgasm/ejaculate more in five years than the average sexually active male does his entire life. Thus, I know that ejaculation does not sap the body nor the mind, nor the spirit, as taoist and tantric tomes have taught for millennia. However, not only have I never suffered from any of the supposedly deleterious effects of uncontrolled ejaculation throughout my life, I have most definitely enjoyed a sexual capacity unlike any other. (No, I didn't say better; I said, "unlike any other.")
Where tantric and taoist principles can be employed for the benefit of sexuality, I applaud them. However, hopefully soon, there will be made available the true sexual freedom that women have always had of being able to do as you suggest in Entry #152 and relax and enjoy it, without techniques, without worrying about "controlling" the pleasure and "focusing" on when to bear down, when to breathe, how to carefully time the application of technique so as not to do it too early or too late, etc. This is what I mean by that which is "unnatural."
And finally, there has been research done comparing natural multiple orgasm to the unnatural male multiple orgasm documented in all studies, save our own of course. Dr. Prakash Kothari compared the voluntary-technique-driven orgasms of his "multiorgasmic" male subject to those of multiorgasmic women. His conclusions can be found at the "Previous Studies" page of this website: http://www.doitnow.com/~brm/previousstudies.htm#Kothari
Thank you very much for your entry, jessi. We receive relatively few female respondents to this site, so your comments, along with Teresa's and Linda's, are very much appreciated.
000152
Friday 11/13/1998 9:03:45am
jessi
jessi@pacbell.net
guys guys guys! I'm so sorry to hear that some of you aren't satisfied in bed! I had no idea you felt this way! But please don't think it unfair that women have so many orgasms — there is no better or worse, us vs. them, either/or. The new paradigm is both/and. Please be open, aware, and let go of preconceived notions. It may simply be that females were born with the ability to be more in tune with the feminine side (universally) due to cultural norms. That feminine side is in all of us. Stop trying, let go, stop judging....it is in tensing up that the struggle gets harder. Relax and slow down and you'll be surprised in the results! I was told growing up that men only want you for sex, don't care about satisfying you, and that sex is not enjoyable. I can orgasm without being touched and am extremely multi-orgasmic. It may have influence that I didn't have expectations. You boys are under a LOT of pressure to perform, to be sex-a-holics, to love and crave sex. Yhat could make it difficult to really be able to be fully present, enjoy, and be in ecstasy. Good luck.
There you have it guys, good advice straight from an apparently very multiorgasmic woman. If you are constantly agonizing about something, how much fun can it be? Enjoy sex to its fullest! And, should our research someday prove successful, so much the better!
000153
Friday 11/13/1998 12:05:28am
Linda aka Sunny
sari@flash.net
Texas
Coolidge Effect — Thank you for the referral and thus the understanding. So in reference to John's statement “Oh, well, perhaps I will be reincarnated as a rooster!!!†From some of your earlier comments I'd say you already have been blessed with your request, just without the feathers.
Also, as to my apparent lack of comprehension of the correct meaning of “MRP.†Again thanks for the clarification. However, communication notwithstanding the ability to experience “continuous orgasms†without the ability to control the onset of another orgasm was what I was referring to. I am physically able to enjoy consecutive orgasms during most sexual encounters, depending of course on my state of arousal. But as Jessi has so eloquently and perfectly stated when the barriers of restrained desire are removed, i.e. the pressure to perform, the number of orgasms is not the focus of a truly satisfying sexual encounter. It is then that true communion between partners ignites to its fullest state.
Works for me! :)
000154
Friday 11/13/1998 2:24:14pm
John
Jessi's comments (152) reminded me of an old hippie girlfriend. So monorgasmia is a result of "cultural norms"? Funny, I thought it was a physiological limitation. Maybe you are right — a little relaxation therapy and I will be off into ecstacy, just like you (ha, ha, ha).....I think that MRP is a dual-edged sword for women. It leaves some unsatisfied, but it leaves others with the power to quickly end a session of sex whenever they want to by pushing the man over the edge. . . .Monorgasmia has also kept me from cheating on my wife because I know that the chase is exciting, but the sex act itself is a let-down. If men were multiorgasmic, they would still respond to the "Coolidge effect" by seeking new partners.
Don't judge jessi too harshly, John. It wasn't too long ago that male gynecologists chalked PMS up to emotional or psychological problems, thus perpetuating the stigma of females as somehow inherently unstable and altogether too emotional. According to them, it was all in their pretty little heads (poor, silly females). After all, we as men didn't experience these wild mood swings, thus it must be a female deficiency or inadequacy, possibly triggered by societal expectations of women and perpetuated by our cultural norms. Today, we understand better the hormonal and sympathetic nervous system reactions that can occur following menstruation. Today, thanks to research, we understand what "PMS" is and why women react as they do, and more importantly, how it can be treated. Thus, it is quite understandable that women view MRP with the same degree of incredulity. They don't experience MRP, thus it must be a societal thing based on cultural norms...etc.
I have often heard women express the belief, very firmly held I might add, that MRP is not biological or physiological at all, but instead, culturally motivated and reinforced — despite the fact that, like PMS, it exists universally despite culture, society, race, religion, etc. MRP is very real and very physiological, and thus, should be able to be countered with medication at least. Of course, only research will resolve this issue, just as it did for PMS.
000155
Friday 11/13/1998 2:25:36pm
John
If you do come up with a cure for MRP, what are we going to do about all those women who a) have never had a multiple orgasm (roughly half the population) or b) do not have them consistently? What is holding them back? What is wrong with them? Has anyone studied this question? I've come across no study comparing mono and multiorgasmic women and speculating as to the reasons why some girls have so much fun and others think sex is greatly overrated (with the exception of the Carmichael study, which hypothesized that oxytocin release was the cause).
Again, neither happiness nor fulfillment in life is dependent upon multiple orgasms. Should the research help in eradicating or diminishing the effects of MRP, wonderful! Men are definitely held back by MRP, however this is not to say that all men's libidos are such that they will benefit substantially from having the MRP issue resolved. True, most will, but not all. Women do not possess a "mandatory" refractory period, thus this research will not, in and of itself, do much for women. Women's libidos and subsequent response cycles vary as much as do women, individually. Thus, there is nothing I feel we must "do" about them, at all. They are who and what they are, individually. Some are very multi, most are not, and this is just as it should be. Men, on the other hand, regardless of libido levels, are universally hampered by the restraints imposed by the MRP. Thus, doing away with this would benefit men immensely by permitting them to experience pleasure to whatever degree their libidos desire, just as do women, rather than forcing them to limit their pleasure regardless of libidos, or rather, despite them.
000156
Monday 11/16/1998 3:50:22pm
John
Women really think MRP is "in our heads"? This is utterly remarkable. After all, most women do not suffer from PMS, but of all the billions of men on this planet, your subject is the only known example of a man not suffering from MRP. I've never heard a woman say this before, but then again I've never asked. Absolutely incredible! (Is this what they call "blaming the victim"??!). : )
As I said, I have heard this from many women over the years with whom I have discussed this subject. To me, it is a most understandable viewpoint. After all, we all cannot help but view and discern the world around us based upon our own experience.
000157
Monday 11/16/1998 3:53:31pm
John
In an earlier entry, you stated that the researchers only measured your Subject's blood pressure, not his anal/pelvic contractions. The other studies I've seen all include this very relevant information (measuring number of contractions, intensity of contractions, etc.). You stated that the Rutgers researchers did not have access to the equipment. I find this strange. The premier sex researcher in the world doesn't have access to the equipment needed to do sex research? They put the guy to all this trouble and expense and did not conduct a complete study? Just curious....
P.S.: It would be interesting to compare your subject's response to the multiorgasmic women (and man) in the Carmichael study (Archives of Sexual Behavior, 1994). That study included data for all the relevant variables.
Suffice it to say, I agree with you and found the lack of such equipment during the study very disappointing. While I feel we had more than sufficient empirical data to verify the Subject's claims, the contraction data would have proved of great worth. However, whereas with women the contraction data is of key importance (ejaculation is certainly not a requisite phase of female orgasm), the ejaculate volumes — especially the first — proved that full ejaculation did indeed take place (this key data will be published at the site as soon as the study is published in JSET, along with the rest of the study). However, in addition to blood pressure and ejaculate specimens for each ejaculation, we also measured pulse rate and even infrared pupilar diameter. All of these were taken at two minute intervals throughout the study, and at each orgasm.
As for the Carmichael Study, I am very interested in getting hold of this and finally reading it. Given all you have said regarding it, I am most anxious to compare the two studies side-by-side, and perhaps including portions of it at this site. Thank you for this info!
000158
Monday 11/23/1998 4:30:25pm
richard allen
rballen@mindspring.com
I can have multiple orgasms. I had 6 at one time.
Wonderful! Thank you for the entry, Richard. There are a few of you out there, and that's great!
Actually, this gives me a great opportunity to let everyone know that very soon now, in commemoration of the study's impending publication in the Journal of Sex Education and Therapy, all multiorgasmic men will finally be able to wear the symbol that proclaims this unique and highly-treasured capacity. Very soon now, those of you men who are multiorgasmic — in whatever capacity — will be able to acquire and display an adaptation of the Male Multiorgasmic Symbol that headlines the pages of this site. I've finally taken the advice of many who have encouraged me, and have had this highly distinctive and masculine creation of mine rendered in precious metals as a necklace. It will first be made available in pewter, silver, and gold. Thereafter, as a key-chain, ring, watch fob, or anything thing else you might like; just let me know. As yet, I do not have a price list for you, so please be patient. But, bookmark this site, and soon you'll be able to see it and purchase it online at our new domain. Before the end of the year I'll be revamping the entire site and moving it lock, stock, 'n' barrel to our new domain — www.multiorgasmic.com
Appropriate domain name, don'tcha think? (Frankly, I was amazed to find that domain name still available!)
In addition, as I have promised all who have asked and/or written, the study itself will be available at our new site in .pdf format for viewing using the free, downloadable, Acrobat Reader.
000159
Tuesday 11/24/1998 9:13:27am
Teresa
WOW...what great progress to this topic and research! Publication (finally) and now availability of your unique symbol. I think it is great that you are "sharing" it. Ever think of creating a similar one for us MO women? Just a fun thought! I look forward to the continued advancements of your site!
Hiya! So great to see you back! Yes, we're movin' onward and upward ("up" bein' a most apropos term for this website, wouldn't you agree?).
Actually, you make an interesting point. Just between you and I, I ultimately plan on expanding this site to include the female multiorgasmic perspective, as well. This would include all previous studies on female multiple orgasm and forums for discussion and discourse on such topics. And yes, I am considering various design variations on the female symbol that might best depict female mulitorgasmic response. After all, if you got it ... flaunt it! Right?
000160
Tuesday 11/24/1998 12:00:57am
Teresa
Great! I absolutely love the idea of you creating a "sister" site on the female MO topic! How intriguing the mix would be! Your original site has certainly increased my knowledge level while lending a "real" place for intelligent, mature discussion from both sexes! Onward and "up"ward! Yes...got it...flaunt it! So you'll have to use some of those creative juices (mmmm) and create a female insignia for those of us flaunting MO women! I do like the way you think! ;)
I shall attempt to keep this guestbook as professional as possible, however women like you, Teresa, do make this hard ... er, difficult! ;)
Thank you for such wonderful encouragement! Actually the "sister" site would be part of this domain, which fittingly will be named: multiorgasmic.com
As for the female insignia (I LOVE that moniker, btw), keep watchin' this site! :)
000161
Friday 11/27/1998 3:37:29pm
John
Your button idea sounds great. When you say it is available to men who are multiorgasmic "in whatever capacity," are you including those of us who have multiple nonejaculatory orgasms?....Of course, you'd have to be a pretty DARING person to wear such a button in public. (Can you imagine a man walking around with a button that reads "I have 10 inches?!") I've always wondered as women walk by whether they were multiorgasmic or not; a button would take all the guesswork out of it!!. Then again, their monorgasmic sisters might resent it....The female angle sounds great. Since the multiorgasmic universe is 99.9999% female, this would greatly expand the discussion.....HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! :)
Hey, thanks John! Actually, it won't be a button; it'll be a necklace, first. Then, I'll see what else people would like to see it as. And, yes, it would be for all men who have some "multiorgasmic" capacity, non-ejaculatory included. And, as the symbol doesn't make it too obvious what it's about, it won't seem at all braggish or arrogant for a man to wear it. But, for those who ask, he is certainly able to explain as he sees fit. Same for women, too.
000162
Friday 11/27/1998 4:09:12pm
Mikey
ssspeed@iname
Wisconsin
I really like this site...........I have longer ...................you know! hehe And it makes our sex great!
Thanks for your entry! And, glad to hear it! :)
000163
Friday 12/04/1998 10:13:05am
Teresa
Greetings and Salutations! Any updates to share?
Yep! Just expanded the study overview with lots of new info! Finally decided to let everyone know more about what took place during the study.
000164
Saturday 12/05/1998 10:20:13pm
boris
beauty@3d6.com
http://www.3d6.com/
Virginia
Found this site via Jane's Net Sex Guide.
Very interesting research you are doing! I'm curious how many of your correspondents share my experiences (don't have time to read all 165 entries of this guestbook).
I was definitely truly multiorgasmic as a teenager (15-16yrs.), for at least several months prior to being able to ejaculate. I don't know exactly for how long, but I do have fond memories of being able to plateau and orgasm as often as I liked without any refractory period. But without ejaculation. The orgasms were as intense as any that I've experienced since (I think). Too bad that there were no women in my life to share this sexual joy.
Regarding orgasmic strength and arousal: I've not felt any reduction in overall orgasmic intensity with advancing age (now 36). Arousal is definitely mental, and key to maximum orgasmic intensity / shortened MRP. Also related to the length of foreplay or anticipation... With only mild embarrassment, I will also admit to the most intense orgasms after making love to "myself" using visual erotic entertainment. If I've abstained from sex for a longer period, say a few weeks, this will often intensify the "session," and the subsequent orgasm.
My strongest orgasms will produce ten "bursts" of semen. The first three or four of these will be quite strong (I always try to contain my semen, don't like cleaning up a mess... so estimating strength of ejaculation by using a distance measure is not possible, or most certainly silly. Suffice it to say, that no one had better be nearby! If porn flicks are any indication, this strength of ejaculation is not too common — can you enlighten me?). Sometimes, one orgasm is insufficient for my libido, and I'll work towards a second one within maybe a twenty minute period. Second and even third orgasms feel much more intense, though, of course, semen production is reduced. They take a lot more "work," both mental and physical.
Despite the typically superior intensity of autoerotic orgasms, they are psychologically unsatisfying. Whenever possible, I prefer to make love, or at least share my orgasm with my wife!
I was going to respond to this, however John (Entry 167) has done such a good job at answering it for me, I'll simply refer you to that entry.
000165
Sunday 12/06/1998 5:29:03am
Khaled Guevara
eternal_guevara@mailcity.com
Lebanese
i don't know what 2 comment but it's a great research
000166
Monday 12/07/1998 12:55:19am
Bob
blank_man_666@hotmail.com
Wisconsin
It's been my experience that with the right stimulation (perhaps oral sex from an expert immediately following intercourse) I have been able to become erect immediately following an orgasm. After becoming erect again, I can orgasm three or four times before my orgasms become less intense. I consider this to be multiorgasmic. Perhaps if men try to use some other stimulation, they can achieve what I do. Maybe try adding something to your sex life, for example you and your mate should add another partner. With this extra stimulation, maybe you can achieve multiple orgasms like I do.
000167
Monday 12/07/1998 6:00:05pm
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
Boris, there is one study of preadolescent male multiples conducted by one of the world's leading anthropologists, Robin Fox ("Male Masturbation and Female Orgasm," Society, 1994?). Fox interviewed people who had the same recollection of experiencing unending orgasms before they reached adolescence. The onset of puberty brought all the fun to an end, with the sudden arrival of ejaculation and the male refractory period. Kinsey hypothesized that the female ability to enjoy unlimited orgasms was related to the fact that they did not become ejaculatory during adolescence. Given the nature of the research (child sexuality), this is an exceptionally difficult topic to study, especially since our memories of childhood sexual pleasures grow dim with time. I, too, however remember playing with myself when I was prepubescent, but am unsure whether I had multiples at the time. I recall the intensity of the experience was much less than after I reached puberty. I have the Fox article at home and will try to get you the exact citation.
Thanx, John. You answered Boris' question almost exactly as I would have.
000168
Tuesday 12/08/1998 10:10:06am
Karim W. Ibrahim
karim_ibrahim@hotmail.com
Egypt
Very interesting techniques and exercises. Should be most useful to enhancing sexual experiences. Thank you for providing this info.
Thank you very much for your entry. Of course, this site is not about techniques and/or exercises; the techniques page is provided only as a convenience to those interested in them.
000169
Tuesday 12/08/1998 12:13:10am
Teresa
WOW! The site changes are great! Keep up the excellent work! ;)
If you thought the changes were great before, go see what I just added to the study overview! All who have written requesting more info on the study itself should find the expanded overview of great interest.
However, the site will soon be undergoing a major overhaul. So, check back every now and then!
000170
Tuesday 12/08/1998 7:09:39pm
John
Here's the citation I mentioned earlier: Robin Fox, "Male Masturbation and Female Orgasm," Society (Sept./Oct. 1993): 21-25
000171
Tuesday 12/08/1998 8:40:57pm
Wantmour Gasms
quirk75@hotmail.com
Planet Orgasm :P
How, that would be helpful (heh). Hmm please let me know when the study actually comes (heh) out.
Cute "name", btw. Very cute.
As I have told everyone, as soon as it's published, the entire study will be available online, here. However, I have just updated the site with an expanded overview of the study. Check it out!
000172
Wednesday 12/09/1998 10:39:23am
John
I read the extended review of the study: What a clumsy set of procedures! Aren't you glad that you don't have do that every time you have sex! : )
Boy, ain't that a fact! Hey, at least if I did, it'd be with a woman there! I'm still amazed we were actually able to document anything, especially given the pressure to perform he was under. Thanks for your entry.
000173
Thursday 12/10/1998 6:33:07am
jim
I am amazed that the subject had any orgasms. Sitting in a chair, chin resting on a support facing a pupilometer, collecting his ejaculate at the moment of orgasm and the room hot and stuffy — just amazing. The research is great, but I hope you make the environment more comfortable for orgasming for possible future participants. Question, what do your pupils do during orgasm? Also, I am multiorgasmic and would be interested in purchasing a key ring or something with the male multiorgasmic symbol. When will this be available? Here's to more orgasms for men.
It sure as hell wasn't easy. But, we were attempting to document the "impossible," so we all wanted to do as much as we could to prove that what was claimed was real. As for future research, we'll just have to wait and see what funding we might be able to acquire. As for your question regarding the pupil during orgasm, the pupil will dilate to some extent during orgasm. This is an involuntary reaction, and thus is important in documenting that orgasm has taken place.
Thank you for your interest in the Male Multiorgasmic Symbol; it will be made available as a pendant and, probably, keychain after the first of the year. I will also be including a survey so as to begin building a database of other males who are multiorgasmic, in whatever capacity, strictly for research purposes only; the option to remain anonymous will, of course, be yours. So, be sure and bookmark this website, and watch for some major changes very soon!
000174
Thursday 12/10/1998 10:06:37am
Teresa
Thanks for pointing out the updates on the study. I am continually amazed and excited at the prospect of reading the full, published study. Again, my thanks for this site, sharing information and opening the discussion on this fascinating topic! I will be watching for updates. May everyone have peace and happiness this holiday season!
Thank you for your enthusiasm and your kind remarks. Would that all were as able to see the importance and potential of this area of research.
000175
Sunday 12/13/1998 2:51:06am
Private Message 175
000176
Sunday 12/13/1998 6:04:11am
John
erotic99@yahoo.com
I've been thinking about the unorthodox methodology used in this study to prove that the subject had "full, unimpeded ejaculations." The authors write: "the first ejaculation of this study dwarfs in volume that of the Kothari Subject, clearly indicating that full ejaculation has taken place." They make a comparison with only one control subject (in the Kothari study), thus concluding that this method demonstrates the presence of a full ejaculation. The assumption is that if the semen volume in the first orgasm/ejaculation is far greater than subsequent orgasms/ejaculations than this is proof of a complete ejaculation. My own experience contradicts this assumption: I have been watching my semen flow quite closely and there is no doubt that, although I stop at the point of ejaculation, the semen flow from my first emission-phase orgasm is far, far greater than in a subsequent ejaculation. For example, last night I had an emission-phase orgasm and stopped at the point of ejaculation. The semen flowed out and covered my penis and pubic hair. Then I followed this with a full, unimpeded ejaculation, which produced only a trickle of semen. Please note that I am not claiming to have "full, unimpeded ejaculation", nor am I doubting your ability to have them. What I question is whether this method proves it. I have read numerous articles in sex research journals and have never come across anyone using this method. Again, I wonder why they did not use anal probes?? Will they do so soon? Their current methodology seems to leave some room for skepticism.
P.S.: I've searched high and low for an American library that has a copy of the Kothari study. Do you know where I could order it?
John, if you had read the "previous studies" page summarizing the Kothari Study, you would have found the answers to most of your own questions. As stated on that page of this site, the Kothari Study is the first ever to document the ejaculate quantities resulting from the employment of impeded ejaculatory techniques, thus I could only compare the ejaculate volumes of our study to the only other study where such volumes were recorded. Were there more studies with such data, I would gladly have included them. If you know of any, let me know; I'm sure their findings would closely mirror those of Kothari, despite your anecdotal observations of your own experience. However, while the Kothari Study is the first to document exact volumes, it is certainly not the first to indicate that, in impeded ejaculation, the ejaculate volumes are relatively small and exhibit a pattern similar to that of the documented volumes of the Kothari Study. In Hartman and Fithian's book "Any Man Can", they reported that in the case of those males who ejaculated semen, the volume was small enough to be collected at the time of orgasm in a teaspoon as it oozed out (collected by Marilyn Fithian, herself), unaccompanied by the forceful ejaculatory contractions that indicate full ejaculation. As Hartman and Fithian comment regarding such men, "...the actual amount of ejaculate at each peak was about the same..." (ibid., p. 8).
Regarding the Kothari Study in particular, each quote in the previous studies page gives citation with the title of the manuscript from which it was excerpted. However, here is a complete citation: Orgasm: New Dimensions; Prakash Kothari, MB, PhD, Seth G S Medical College & KEM Hospital, Bombay, India; VRP Publishers 1989; Chapter 11, pages 103-127.
Finally, while you seem to hold that an anal probe would have conclusively proved that full ejaculatory contractions took place, it would not have done so. The probe measures only whatever vibrations, contractions, movement, etc., is made upon it. Thus, while I have previously stated that it would have been an important additional data source, it would not have provided the conclusive proof you seem to feel it would. The probe is only capable of measuring pressure placed upon it. It cannot distinguish between such pressure being applied cognitively (voluntarily) or as the natural result of unimpeded orgasm.
000177
Sunday 12/13/1998 5:01:23pm
John
The Kothari subject (and the Hartmann and Fithian subjects) seem to have used the "clench" technique to halt ejaculation (see Hartmann and Fithian, Any Man Can). My technique is to stop at the moment of ejaculation. It feels like a valve opens just before I begin to ejaculate, but since I stopped, the semen flows out. Perhaps my experience just adds a wrinkle to the previous findings. Again, this is an impeded ejaculation with significant semen flow.
P.S.: How did Masters and Johnson measure the number of ejaculatory contractions? Didn't they use a probe?
P.P.S.: I have read studies where they were able to identify voluntary from involuntary contractions (as measured by the probe). The voluntary contractions were weaker and did not follow a bona fide orgasmic pattern.
As Masters & Johnson did not focus any of their prolific work on multiorgasmic capacity, I have not done an in-depth study of all their work.
000178
Sunday 12/13/1998 5:19:21pm
John
From Joseph G. Bohlen, et al., "The Male Orgasm: Pelvic Contractions Measured by Anal Probe," Archives of Sexual Behavior (1980): 503-521:
"Orgasmic contractions were easily distinguished from voluntary contractions by the steadily increasing intervals and complete muscle relaxation between orgasmic contractions." — The authors report similar findings by Masters and Johnson, Kollberg, Petersen, and other sex researchers. They discuss the methodology of anal probes and coaxial needle electrodes (a more invasive technique used to isolate the responses of individual muscles). Further study of your responses with an anal probe and the ultrasound would be illuminating.
This study sounds very interesting, and as I have mentioned previously, as soon as we are able to continue research, we will definitely use the anal probe and ultrasound. As also I have stated on several occasions, I was disappointed that the probe was not available at the time of our study as its use had been planned from the beginning and was included in the research proposal, itself. Unfortunately, as I live about a thousand miles from Rutgers University, I was unable to ensure its availability at the time of the study, and the Rutgers researchers, for whatever reason, were unable to do so, either.
000179
Sunday 12/13/1998 6:13:23pm
Dennis
pickpocket@hotmail.com
UK
As a multi-orgasmic male I was intrigued enough by this site to give you an example of how good multiple orgasms really can be.
Some time last year I was with a girlfriend who was masturbating and fellating me for about 30 minutes. During that time, I ejaculated 5 times (Yes five times) and kept a full solid erection throughout. She was quite amazed by my talent, saying that she had never seen anything like that before. Unfortunately my over-sized sex drive was too much for her and resulted in the end of the relationship. Has anyone looked into a correlation between penis size and multiple orgasms? I have a 10 inch penis and maybe it's size has something to do with my orgasms?
As John mentioned above, I agree also that you should investigate the possibilities of having a study done there in the UK. Such research "competition" would go a long way in bringing more attention and further credibility to this supposedly "physiologically impossible" male capacity. If I can help in any way, let me know! At the very least, you can offer them this website as a precedent in validation of your claims. It took our research Subject ten years to find a research team more interested in documenting his claims than in accusing him of lying. I hope you'll have better and quicker success than he did.
Oh, and no, I can find no reason to believe that larger penis size is somehow a factor in male multiorgasmic capacity. I would venture instead to say that arousal is, to date, the greatest known contributing factor. As was apparently evident during the occasion you mentioned, as this capacity manifested itself "sometime last year", the arousal of that sexual session was probably greater than what you usually experience, which is why your response was more multiorgasmic.
000180
Sunday 12/13/1998 6:43:54pm
John
Dennis, ten inches and multiejaculatory?! "Some guys have all the luck . . . ." : ) I hope the lead researchers in this study are contacting individuals such as yourself for follow-up studies. Or, perhaps even better, you could contact a sex researcher in the U.K. (a little bit of competition among researchers might stimulate some additional interest in the subject).
000181
Saturday 12/26/1998 1:47:21pm
GARY
mcclain2nd@hotmail.com
The study was very interesting!! I have a 7 1/2 inch penis and can at most times have several orgasms without losing an erection. As another viewer put it, maybe size has something to do with it. Although, i think it really just depends on the person. If you are inexperienced and just aren't mentally into it, then it just won't happen.
000182
Sunday 12/27/1998 3:09:18pm
Joe Snipe
a6565666@hotmail.com
Colorado
Excellent study! With any luck a "self help" book will follow?
Thank you for your kind remarks. Believe me, if I could discover, without the need for research, what the difference is and how to teach this to all men, I'd have a book already in print and be basking in the riches and fame such a book would undoubtedly bring. And, no doubt, the world would be enjoying the full benefit of such a book as men and women finally enjoyed sex on a fully level playing field. However, as much as I would like this to be so, I am of the very strong opinion that this difference is physiological in nature, and thus cannot be taught in a book.
Oh sure, I could do as others have done and simply publish a new book — using the study for its credentials — and recycle the same tired techniques found in every other "new" male multiorgasmic book out there. After all, it makes money for them! "The Multi-orgasmic Male", "How to Make Love All Night", "E.S.O.", and many others, all teach the same techniques found in 4,000 year old documents which have been reprinted countless times in countless languages and cultures. And, were I likewise inclined, I too could make money off of these ancient techniques, as well. However, only research will unlock the secrets of the male refractory period, and discover why our Subject's physiology does not possess this supposedly "universal" limitation. Thus, so it must be. Now, if you know of anyone interested in funding such research, let me know! :)
000183
Thursday 12/31/1998 2:45:04pm
Private Message 183
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